running after birds-help!

[glw]

I have a 10 month old male English Setter that's so birdy he runs from window to window in the house whining at what he sees. Here's the problem. Last week he snuck out underfeet through an open door and was off! He ran up the road where we walk to a draw that's full of quail. He had done that twice before but we were able to catch him. Not so this time. After looking and hiking to exhaustion, we came home thinking we'd never see him again-very tough night! Went to turn out porch light at 11:30PM and there he was. Can't tell you how happy I was.

Now how do I speed up getting him to stop the chase? I've been practicing on a long cord by calling him back for a treat and praise(90%). He does that fine, but he knew when he didn't have the leash on and he was off to the races. Any help greatly appreciated!

[Karen]

nevermind

[ezzy333]

Karen,

Maybe it would be easier to just give the dog away. In either method I don't think a thing was added about how to teach the dog to come when called or to stop chasing.

Ezzy

[BigShooter]

glw,

I not certain I understand what you're asking for. The young, bred for hunting, dog is excited about birds...that's a good thing. Is the issue that the dog is disobedient and won't come back when called? Is the second question how to teach a dog to be steady on point?

If the dog was "over the hill" how do you know it didn't stand on point for a long time before the quail took off and then the young dog simply relocated and went on point again?

Mark

[kninebirddog]

Always put on a leash on the dog before opening doors.

Watch the dog whisperer...that will give you alot of ideas of where to get control of your dog in the home

[Equismith]

E-collar.

I have now gotten my Brit to go outside without jumping on the door and scratching it with excitement. She goes to certain boundaries while outside, but if she goes too far, a simple light nick with the e-collar sends her back just like it was an invisible fence. I never let her run without supervision. She has responded well to the e-collar. Simple beeps will get her attention most of the time without any stimulation at all.

It's a Tri-Tronics Sport Combo G-3.

[kninebirddog]

Only thing I dislike about the nick a dog back for this and going past the boundaries is you have just set up that nick as an aversion training instead of a cue...
so be very careful now when you decide to use your e collar in the field your pup may think "come off" with what ever she stimualted in the field

just be prepared for that IF you get that reaction so you know why

[zzweims]

How about a fence?

Aline

[wems2371]

Your pup sounds a lot like our 8.5 month old gsp. We have 11 acres and a 11 yr old dog we send her out to potty with. We would put her out for 5-10 minutes at a time, looking out the window every couple minutes to make sure she was in site. She was very trustworthy until about mid February, and then she started chasing squirrels and rabbits. So we recently put a temporary 20' tie out for her during potty times. I cut her some slack just yesterday and left her loose, and couldn't find her at the 5 minute mark. I looked by the pigeon coop, down our long drive, and by the horse manure pile (favorite haunt)--and could not find her. I called out to my husband for help searching and finally looked 300' south of our house, in the neighbors bean field, and she was pointing robins. She has been worked with extensively on "Come" and is pretty darn well whistle trained--but she wouldn't come to me. She even looked at me a few times, as if to say "mom, isn't this what you train me to do?" So after giving it some thought, I put on my mud boots and traipsed thru some timber and across a fence to release her from point and give her praise. It struck fear in me too, and she's going to remain on the tie out when I'm not outside. They're just too young to know what's best for them yet, so you have to watch out for them. My lab didn't become a porch potato until at about 7 years old. I don't know if you can fault them for having such a strong hunting instinct and I know how irritating it is when they don't listen. I also hope you have a collar with ID on it. If nothing else, magic marker your # inside. I'm not a huge fan of invisible fence, but if sneaking out the door is a possibility--maybe an IFence or real fence would be your best bet.

[Equismith]

Only thing I dislike about the nick a dog back for this and going past the boundaries is you have just set up that nick as an aversion training instead of a cue...
so be very careful now when you decide to use your e collar in the field your pup may think "come off" with what ever she stimualted in the field

just be prepared for that IF you get that reaction so you know why

I think I get what you're saying, but the field is different than the yard. And were talking about .5 dial setting. This is no more than a tug of a leash. Or less.

It's working fine for me and Libby. The beeps are dang near as effective.

Thanks though.

[WildRose]

If you don't have a fenced yard you should simply never open the door without a leash or cc'd on the dog until it's completely trained.

If you don't have a fenced yard and you turn your dog loose to run and play, sooner or later it will get lost, run over, or killed/seriously injured by a predator.

The first thing that comes with ownership is responsibility. CR

[gar-dog]

I took my pup to the Watchung Reservation, about 2,000 acres near the house. Beautiful. We go there all the time for fun timing, always with a check cord. Well, the Robins are out, and Ginger went nuts, and was barreling off and disappeared in some very very thick cover where I never thought I;d find her. (frankly I was proud of her for going in that stuff - it would have been impossible for me to get in). When she is birdy she doesn't mind me at all. I also am hesitant to call her off birds for obvious reasons. Today I was thinking it may be time for an e-collar. She is 6 months and the prey drive has really kicked in.

I don't know what to recommend, maybe you need an invisible fence. On the other hand, since she slipped out without your guide, she probably wouldn't have had the collar on anyway.

[hubweims]

wow, i don't know where to begin.............let's start with the breaking out. first and foremost you have an obedience issue. i know that there are many trainers that don't believe in teaching some obedience commands such as sit, stay, etc. however, i think that many people take this to the extremes. i think many feel that any type of obedience is bad. there must be rules in, at, around the house AND afield. a dog that is hyper in the house and runs from window to window and the only calming method is to let them out is a non-obedient dog without boudries. you don't think dogs have boundries wild in their packs. watch discovery channel or national geographic and see how misbehaving pack members treated by the leaders or alpha dogs. it often doesn't take e stimulation to fix it. some time and patience will do it. you have to let the dog know that the action is not permissable in or at home. you will NOT hurt the dogs drive by correcting him or her while in the house to keep them from jumping around and possible hurting themselves or your house. another thing is work on manners. the fact that your dog got loose more than once is a huge problem. you need to teach a method so that it understands it can only go out when you say. this may mean attaching a leash everytime you go to the door for any reason. also means you better hold on to the leash as well. a dog should only bolt once. the next time i am going to be prepared for it and correct it before it happens. you can tell when your dog is gonna bolt. the next couple of bolts probably didn't come a real shock to you. also, if you dog obeys on the cc (90%) of the time but not off lead.........guess what. don't take the dog off lead and you haven't done enough yard work and obedience with the dog. a dog should be consistantly 100% before you ever consider taking the lead off. if you can't enforce a command........DO NOT GIVE IT. with you yelling or commanding come to no end while the dog is running down the street.......what has your dog learned from that????? if you let your dog run and can't enforce commands deal with the situation with your mouth shut. it is honestly your fault for it happening anyway.

now, with a young pup running loose in an unfenced yard or field w/o supervision........that is another problem waiting to happen. i find that to be just about as irresponsible as it comes. a lot of people don't understand bird dogs, hunting dogs, or dogs in general. i have heard nightmare stories about dogs getting out of fences and being shot b/c of them being a nuisances to the neighbors. so the fact that a member on this forum promotes the activity of free running and roaming dogs is irresponsible and find offensive. this is why many people think so poorly of dog owners and dog hunters. put up some type of containment. whether it be a fence, underground fence, or run........contain your dog. you may save yourself from a lot of heartache. i am sure everyone lives in the general area of public roads.

now, with the e-collar. i agree with kninebirddog. the e-collar is the most abused tool ever for training of dogs. it is often viewed as the quick fix all and is sometimes seen as the path of least resistance. the fact that you use the ecollar for what seems like every yard correction throws major RED flags in my eyes. it is abusive, NO MATTER THE LEVEL OF STIMULATION. you have taken out the bonding aspect of having the dog. dogs by their genetics want to please their masters. if you would spend a little more time being a leader and lying out boundries and what was expected of the dog, you will find that you will no doubt have less time with your thumb attached to the e-collar transmitter. you may think that what you are doing is working for you and your brit. but, i am willing to bet that you are causing more problems than you realize. this tool should be least used tool in your training aids. it is used for reinforcement of known (100% always) commands and actions. if you are using your collar that much, something is wrong with your training technique. most every person on here will tell stories that the run their dogs and sometimes forget to turn the collar on. or, the dog wears the collar everytime it goes out in the yard but the transmitter is left inside. if you are using the collar that much you are misusing it and abusing it. i hunt with a fair amount of people, and i have gotten to know a few excellent trainers in my short time (compared to some), but i don't know anyone who uses the beep feature of the collars (including me). i did train my dogs to come with it like a come whistle. two beeps on the collar = two short whistle blasts = COME. however, i never took it past the yard work. i have never used afield, and haven't worked on it in ages. my dogs probably wouldn't remember it if they heard it. that's b/c i found it not to be practical for the use i intended for it. i don't like giving "warning" beeps. i think it has a tendency to make your dog collar wise and collar shy. well, that's my .02. sorry if i offended anybody, but just thought i would chime in. btw, my dogs are collar conditioned and wear their collars frequently. hunting or not. i have had to stimulate my dogs 1x in the last 12-15 outings.

[hubweims]

i must have been typing when charlie replied. glad to see that we are eye to eye on the responsibilty there wildrose. i was getting worried that nobody else was stepping in and calling it. usually all the experienced guys would be all over a post like this.

[gar-dog]

i must have been typing when charlie replied. glad to see that we are eye to eye on the responsibilty there wildrose. i was getting worried that nobody else was stepping in and calling it. usually all the experienced guys would be all over a post like this.

Wow, a 10 month old dog has gotten out of the house three times and people are busting his chops about responsibility?

I live in a house with 3 kids, 14, 12, and 5, with kids and neighbors going in and out. A busy wife. I am gone at work. Ginger has gotten out three times too. A kid left our gate open to the backyard on Sunday, and you know who ran off and we had to hunt her down.

She is an obedient dog, comes when called 19 out of 20 times. kennels on command. responds to 'down" when on the sofa. She has bonded with us tremendously, but like a kid is not 100% "doing the right thing." 19 out of 20 times the gate is NOT left open.

What's it like to be perfect?

[gar-dog]

One option is to use child gates. We keep Ginger in a part of the house without access to two of the exits because of the gates. On the other hand, sometimes a 4 year old will move it and not put it back.

[wems2371]

"a member on this forum promotes the activity of free running and roaming dogs is irresponsible and find offensive"

I don't know who stated that they believe in the above. And I certainly did not mean to endorse that in my post. I do have a perimeter fence, as I stated--I had to go over it to get to my dog. Unfortunately, the fence could have been better and the lesson was learned. I feel much more secure with her tethered in front of the window for potty. I also have a really nice 10 x 10 kennel for when we're gone.

I was also wondering about the kid issue like "Gar-Dog" was. That would definitely make it difficult. I am not "perfect" either. I've had a checkcord slip out of my hand, a pup trying to get out of truck before leash is snapped (or thinking I got it snapped when all I got was air), closed her crate door (inside the house) and forgot to latch. Thankfully none of them were notable experiences, just reminders to do better when possible. My 11 year old lab was rescued from the local animal shelter that found her roaming at 4 months old along a highway. I know it's a passionate issue, and obviously "glw" loves his dog and wants help--otherwise he wouldn't be here. I don't know his full circumstances to judge him or anyone else on this forum:lol: .

[WildRose]

What's it like to be perfect?

When I first moved to my new Place in Seymour about six years ago I had an evening ritual. I'd turn the young dogs loose while I cleaned the kennels, 2-3 at a time. That way they could romp and play. They (the young dogs) never left the 2 acre yard, well except for once. My kennel there is 1/2 mile from the highway.

One evening about three minutes after I started cleaning kennels I heard a semi's horn and a screech of tires. About a minute later two of the young dogs came running scared back into the yard.

With a sick feeling in my gut I drove down to the highway. The last born Daughter of Dandi Runaway Rusty (that I'm aware of) was smeared down about 200 yards of highway.

That's what it feels like not to be perfect, you find yourself on your hands and knees throwing up on the side of the highway while you scrape up what's left of your dog. CR

[wems2371]

I am sooooo sorry to hear about that WildRose. It makes me shudder to thing of your experience, and I'm such a girl--I'm tearing up at the thought. Definitely a reminder to all of us to do the best we can by our dogs, and protect them where we can--and learn from our mistakes. Thanks.

[hubweims]

Your pup sounds a lot like our 8.5 month old gsp. We have 11 acres and a 11 yr old dog we send her out to potty with. We would put her out for 5-10 minutes at a time, looking out the window every couple minutes to make sure she was in site. She was very trustworthy until about mid February, and then she started chasing squirrels and rabbits. So we recently put a temporary 20' tie out for her during potty times. I cut her some slack just yesterday and left her loose, and couldn't find her at the 5 minute mark.

just so we are clear. you never mentioned a fence. if you have one great. i don't want you to think that i pulled something out of thin air. i can only reply or respond to what you write. sorry for any confusion.

[mtjim]

Boy, I'd sure like to see the dog so well trained that he could be trusted to come immediately even if a female in heat came strolling by just as you let him out to potty. I'm sure they exist - I've just never owned one!

Or you let him out and just as you open the door you see a strange pitbull in the vacant lot next to your house.

My dogs have their e-collars on when they go out to potty - not so that I can hammer them if they do something wrong but so I can protect and control them if they are in danger or if they are presented a temptation that triggers an instinctive traning override. :roll:

[hubweims]

What's it like to be perfect?

i guess the pursuit of perfection comes with practice and experience. i am not saying that i am perfect by any means. i grew up on a major street that was the just off of an interstate. as a child (6 or 7), i had a samoyed (sp?) husky that got out of our fence by ACCIDENT. i witnessed an elderly woman in a huge cadillac swerve from the road to the shoulder to hit my dog. she then later called my parents on the telephone to tell them that she hit our dog b/c we should have had it in our fence and not running loose along the bank of the road. when breeding rotties in highschool, my most promising female ACCIDENTALY got out of the fence. my younger sister forgot to put the lock on the chain link fence gate. while inside the house i heard squeeching tires and a loud thump. i found my dog laying at the edge of our driveway. since then i have worked heavily on containment. all of my dogs and my families dogs will not come out of an open fence until commanded to do so. we started by only allowing a dog to go out of the fence with leash on. i think that if you were to explain to you busy wife and kids the consequences of not being sure to aid in containment that it is a high price and a lot of responsibility for a young one to carry. it took my sister a very long time to get over the fact that she was the reason that tyler was killed. it doesn't matter how you soothe them either, they will always feel responsible despite what you say. whenever, we get out old photos of our pets and the dogs, my sister still gets a little sad and somber when we see pics of our female rottie.

[wems2371]

So after giving it some thought, I put on my mud boots and traipsed thru some timber and across a fence to release her from point and give her praise.

I could have been clearer that it was my perimeter fence. But as I said in a later post, it wasn't good enough quality--and I should have known better. My old lab won't go thru it, but then you can hardly get her off the porch. My point, was that I did screw up ......... and it scared the heck out of me. I guess everybody's got a different learning curve, and it seems from the posts that even experienced gun dog owners have made mistakes not so long ago. I really really do appreciate your advice, and from your recent post understand your passion about the issue. Hopefully all the posts will help "scare" others into find their learning curve before it's too late. Mine's on the tether right now!

[hubweims]

hey wems. yeah sometimes the messages that we intend to write get miscomunicated b/c we are all typing on a 'puter. i had interpreted that part of your post as being your neighbors fence or an old fence through a tree line. i didn't comprehend that it was your fence. no harm, no foul. the biggest intention of this forum is for all of us to learn from others experiences and/or mistakes so that we don't make the same ones.

with containment, my hardest lesson was someone purposely hitting my dog. not everyone loves our dogs like we do. we must remember that the world is full of mean and evil people. we must protect our dogs not only from themselves and accidents but very cruel, cold hearted people as well.

[glw]

Well, I read all this and apparently I sent many folks down the wrong path. Maybe it's because I didn't give enough detail but I've sure left some wrong impressions. Let me try this again.

I don't advocate the dog running loose. No, I'm not surprised he's birdy, duh! I've owned, trained, and hunted behind several breeds for 35 years. The dog bolted out the front door (front yard is not fenced) when my wife opened it to answer the doorbell. That was a new, and yes disobedient behavior. Except for running, he only goes out on a cord or leash. After daily walks, he still pulls so hard that it's difficult to walk him. While on walks, if I stop and "heal", he will, then back to pulling. We're talking intense. This is not the reason I posted-just some background. I run him at a fenced dog park, but kind of hard to teach obedience with 20 dogs loose. I bought him at 4 months so there is some catch-up work to be done. I have been working on obedience training. He's very smart, does "sit", and when on leash or cord "comes". He just knew that when he blew out the door, he could run and there was nothing I could do about it.

Bust my chops it you will, but my original question was to ask the wisdom of this incredible group how do I get him past this destructive behavior so that he can develop normally? So, if anyone has had a dog mind when on leash but run when unintentionally released-what did you do that I don't know. I'm asking for his safety and then the ability to progress to eventual field training. I'm open to professional training, e-fencing the front yard, e-collar-no experience with one. What constructive advice have you?

[WildRose]

So, if anyone has had a dog mind when on leash but run when unintentionally released-what did you do that I don't know. I'm asking for his safety and then the ability to progress to eventual field training. I'm open to professional training, e-fencing the front yard, e-collar-no experience with one. What constructive advice have you?

No one is busting your chops, just making it clear what you are looking at as far as bad things that can happen.

The answer is still the same. We all have young dogs that mind well on a leash that get rambunctious off leash. Until the dog is fully trained at least as far as whoa and recall you have the potential for an unguided missile being on the loose.

If it were me, no matter what it took I'd have a fenced front yard that will actually hold the dog should this happen again.

You will have to start by training the dog that he never goes out the front door without an order to do so. CR

[BigShooter]

glw,

Back up on the third response the question was asked if you could clarify what you were trying to ask. Unfortunately you were not able to respond right away so people ran with the thread while you were off line. Most responders would be unfamiliar with your prior dog experience. I doubt there were any deliberate attempts to insult your intelligence.

From your two posts I have perceived the following obedience issues and please correct if these are wrong.

1. How to train so the dog will not bolt out of the door any time it is opened?
2. How to train heel so the dog is never pulling hard.
3. The dog has been taught to sit. Should the dog also be taught whoa so it will always stop and stand whenever that command is given?
4. How do you train to get a dog to "come" 100% of the time no matter what else is going on?
5. How do you become the "leader of the pack" in the dog's mind so you get compliance?

If these sound close enough to the issues you have you'll get lots of good advice from experienced trainers here but it may be easier to tackle them one or two at a time. Also if these are the pertinent issues you may already know that you can use the search option on this site and find a number of previous threads that have already addressed most of the above issues.

It almost sounds like there are enough issues that you could consider picking one of the training systems, start back as close to the beginning as you need to but stick with one system rather than trying to patch together lots of different pieces of advice.

[hubweims]

glw,

wasn't trying to bust your chops. more making sure you understand the severity of the situation. the dog bolting on more than one occasion isn't good for either. dog learns they can get away and u can't stop. u have to chase and worry about accidents and what not. to fix it i would keep a leash at the front door. set it on a table, hang it from a coat rack, put on a foyer table, or whatever the case keep a lead at the door. everytime the door opens the dog should be leashed. if someone comes to the door and rings the doorbell, you, your kids, or you wife is not to answer it until they have the dog leashed. your visitors should understand especially if you just tell them through the door to wait a moment while you take care of the dog. when the dog tries to bolt, get on her. get on her good with firm voice and no command. make sure that she knows that you mean it. once she seems to understand and progressing along w/o the initial enthusiasm and likeliness to bolt, you can then go to standing on the lead so that your hands and arms are free. remember, make all sure that all of your corrections are understood by the pup and what she wanting to do is unacceptable. if she evens shows interest in anything out the door that is likely to excite her and make her bolt, get on her good. once she has moved passed this you will then start doing it without lead. before you ever open the door the dog must be accounted for. crack the door and act like you are going to open it. if she shows any interest, correct her the instant she shows interest in the opening door. then move to an open door with you blocking it. again, if she shows interest get on her. now, reintroduce the leash, but when you click it on her give her an ok command or a common on and take her out front on lead. this will make her start associating front yard with leash. if she knows sit as well as you say she does, it is also a bit easier. make her sit anytime at front door. before you open the door with her on lead, give her a sit. if she goes to break her sit, correct her and put her back in sit. many people don't teach gundogs sit, but i do. if she knows sit, use it for this.

[hubweims]

while it doesn't seem like much to it, this is not a quick fix. take your time and don't progress until you are confident. i would have her on leash in sit at front door a couple of weeks. don't let her break sit. if she pulls on lead or leans outward with interest in outside, get on her. after a couple of weeks you can move on to standing on lead with her in sit.

[Equismith]

My dogs have their e-collars on when they go out to potty - not so that I can hammer them if they do something wrong but so I can protect and control them if they are in danger or if they are presented a temptation that triggers an instinctive traning override. :roll:

EggZachary!

[Equismith]

...You will have to start by training the dog that he never goes out the front door without an order to do so. CR

EggZachary x2

I'm working on that with great progress. I'm amazed at how intelligent Libby is and how well she responds to voice commands. She knows "whoa" and "off" very well at 7 months. We're working on "stay" right now. She's good for about a few minutes, then her attention span gets handicapped.

[kninebirddog]

with a 7 month old pup a few minutes is a long long time

be sure if she is good for 2 minutes to quit her at 1 min 59 seconds...
don't push it to failure
end sessions on good notes

[chris1613]

I have a GSP about the same age that had the same problem. The little knucklehead run off for the whole day and didnt return unitl it started raining really hard about 2:30 am.
I changed all that the way i called him back, what i did was i got a referee whistle with a hand full of his favorite treats and blew the whistle next to him and gave him a treat immediately and continued do this for 2 days (at the expense of my girlfriends patience LOL!!) there after I did this further away from him gave him a treat only when he came to me right after I blew the whistle and now the little one is at my heals the moment he sees the whistle approaching my face.

You might have turned him off by the method off return the usual "COME" and "HERE" have might been associated with something of a drill for him or not enough praise for his efforts. By changing the call method will recalibrate him to really listen.

Good luck and good hunting!

[jessie]

So you have a 7 month old setter pup who bolts out the front door and runs over to the hedge row where he has contacted birds before and hunts his rear off in hopes of putting up more birds? What is the problem? The only advice I can offer is this. If he gets out and takes off down the hedge row again and you know that you ARE NOT going to be able to get him back, put your boots on and go with him. Make it looked to him like for that one instance it was planned. The logic is this: if you stand at your door and yell at him with no way of enforcing your commands then you're teaching him to ingnore you. Secondly, if you go back inside and let him run himself out and come back on his own then you're teaching him to self hunt. I love the finger pointing. EVERYONE on this post has a had a jailbreak at some point. If you don't like how he acts in the house then put him outside in his kennel. That's where most birddogs should be anyway. I find it funny how most of the pro obedience people are continental breed people. I wonder why that is.

[chris1613]

Well not everybody has that luxury of leaving a dog outside due to complaining neighbors because of the constant barking, no yard or just plainly they dont need to leave there best friend/hunting buddy outside, it's all about training and learning from your mistakes or just listening to wiser folk when it comes to training the pup. You obviously have nothing positive to contribute in this discussion.

respectfully,

Chris

[adogslife]

Quote:
If you don't like how he acts in the house then put him outside in his kennel. That's where most birddogs should be anyway.


Sometimes I just wonder what people are thinking.

[chris1613]

thats not the solution but only putting the problem in another part of the property, the man obviously has a very hyper dog like I do and that he be corrected through consistent training until the dog behaves himself of course the dog needs an outlet and maybe needs a lot more exercise to burn of that hyper edge, trust if i could train a Weimaraner with O.C.D Im sure he can control his dog with corrective training and lots of patience.

respectfully,

Chris

[hubweims]

i left this post awhile back. seems that everyone has different requirements for their dogs with regards to household manners. i just find it convenient to be able to tote a 13 month old daughter, toys, stroller, diaper bag, and etc. to the car in one trip with the door open and not having to worry about the dogs "bolting" out of an open door. whatever the method someone chooses to use or train to it doesn't matter. read the advice, mull it over, determine what YOU expect from YOUR dog and train to that level.

the reason for my revisit, BTW, was to comment on nice looking grey pup in your avatar, chris. where did the pup come from? nice to see another weim lover on here. sure is a pretty pup. just love when their eyes are that blue as a pup.

[chris1613]

well I choose that pic because its the only one that doesnt have him full of mud or making weird faces yes this dog makes the darnest clown faces i cant explain it but just picture a old man trying to bit his nose, but unfortunately now his eyes are grey. I will send you pic of him later on and you will see what im talking about.

and yes I love Weinny morons, LOL

Chris

[hubweims]

it's neat how their eyes change like that. i remember when my maggie (avatar) had those deep crystal clear blue eyes. now, as you can see they are the ghostly grey color as well. those blue eyes as pups are just captivating. i have to say though even when they change they are still nice. where did your pup come out of?

[jessie]

Just goes to show Chris that not everyone should have a birddog. If you don't have the space or the time or the place to keep one then maybe you shouldn't have one. I don't know if you are aware of this Chris but there's a new invention out: it's called a bark collar. They're really neat. You put them on the dog and when he barks it corrects him all on its own. Man, the stuff they come up with!

[chris1613]

Not all dogs have the same reaction to bark collars I have bought those as well and my dog cares less if gets shocked or not and as far as keeping a dog outside or not, thats not the point -that obvouisly you missed AGAIN its not to place the problem else where put fix the source. WOW MAN YOU NEED HELP!

truly gettin annoyed now
Chris