FF on the ground

[luke0927]

Ok new transition and wanted to see how some of you handle it when you go to the ground. I have staked the dog and and started with the toe hitch having him take the buck from, he will now pick it up from the ground as well. I have also used a couple bumpers now since i will sit them out. But when trying the dog on the CC and the bumper out and we walk toward it he just doesn't seem to notices it...i can get close to it and point and he will get it should i just continue to doing it that way?

[SwitchGrassWPG]

I may be missing something, but you didn't state if you are giving your dog the fetch command? If you are and your dog isn't complying, you may need to take a step back in the process.

Jay

[wems2371]

From what I saw in your photos (I think they were yours with the pretty shorthair )the other day, and what you've said here............you trained with a retrieving buck. What does he do if you heel him up to the ret buck? Will he pick that up? Maybe it's a difference between the buck that he's used to versus a bumper. Just a thought. Denise

[luke0927]

From what I saw in your photos (I think they were yours with the pretty shorthair )the other day, and what you've said here............you trained with a retrieving buck. What does he do if you heel him up to the ret buck? Will he pick that up? Maybe it's a difference between the buck that he's used to versus a bumper. Just a thought. Denise

yes i am using fetch...

Yes those were my pics....i may try the buck but he was taking the bumbers fine from my and and then the ground..its basically like when was first trying to get him going down the table away from me...i guess i should start with the buck and heel him right up to it with him on my side and have him pick it up...while we have been on the ground i have been in front of him ive just got to get him over that and have him take it when i am at his side or behind him (giving the command and sending him out)

[gonehuntin']

You're about to discover one of the problems with the toe hitch. You can't control the direction of the head. That's why I and most trainers, use the ear pinch.

You may be extending him too fast. When you drop the buck or bumper a foot or two ahead of him, he should whimper and pull you toward it. If he's not doing this, he won't work a pile. Next comes the walking fetch. Throw a bumper ten feet out and walk him past. He should dive at it. It's all a progression. If he won't pick it up three feet out, he won't pick it up five feet out and won't pick it up seven feet out. It's all an orderly progression Luke.

[luke0927]

I can definitly see that now especially if going to do the pile work...which i think would be for turely drilling it in the dogs head...but from what ive read and seen its mostly the lab guys doing this, do a lot of people run their pointers through the pile works. Im going to work on it im just curious.

Thanks

[gonehuntin']

Every dog is ff'd exactly the same way Luke. Every NAVHDA dog should certainly go through it.

[topher40]

Every dog is ff'd exactly the same way Luke. Every NAVHDA dog should certainly go through it.

Gone-
I couldnt disagree more. Every dog is different and saying that every dog is FF'd the same way is no different that saying that every dog is whoah broke the same way. Every dog is different and has different needs. They all take more or less time on each step and some take the ear pinch where others take the toe hitch better. Hope you were being sarcastic!

[luke0927]

Well today was a success i went to the buck after a quick refresh with the toe hitch on the stake i went to heeling the dog and walking to buck...I had the dog diving for it and doing well....i only had to move my hand toward it on the first try...i was using low stimulation and instantly releasing when the had it in is mouth a few sessions of this and he will be doing well.

[wems2371]

Good for you Luke. I'm no trainer, and I'm not FFing, but everything has been a progression from buck, to bumper, to birds with my pup..........repeating some of the same steps over with the new retrieving item. You'll get there! Denise

[Casper]

My understanding of FF is that you should have complete compliance from the dog sent to any object, without assistance, you set at the end of the table including birds before you take the dog to the ground.

I also understand that many trainers will start the process with the toe hitch than change to the ear pinch before going to the ground. Starting over with all the steps (steps of course go allot faster).

[gonehuntin']

Every dog is ff'd exactly the same way Luke. Every NAVHDA dog should certainly go through it.

Gone-
I couldnt disagree more. Every dog is different and saying that every dog is FF'd the same way is no different that saying that every dog is whoah broke the same way. Every dog is different and has different needs. They all take more or less time on each step and some take the ear pinch where others take the toe hitch better. Hope you were being sarcastic!

What I mean Topher, is that all dog's go through exactly the same PROGRAM. I have never, and will never, ff a dog with a toe hitch. I have absolutely no use for it and never, in hundreds and hundreds of dog's, have I ever found a dog that can not be successfully ear pinched. Yes, they progress at different speeds and I don't think any trainer, good trainer, has a set program length, but the sequence and program remain the same.