Roading young dogs

[Wa Chukar Hunter]

What are your thoughts on roading dogs that are 13 months to 18 months old.

[mtlee]

What are your thoughts on roading dogs that are 13 months to 18 months old.

Check this tread out I started a while ago...should give you some insight on what people think about roading young dogs...

http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... 39#p112339

[RayGubernat]

Keith -

I will road dogs as young as 6-8 mos. old, but I only road a dog slowly, against resistance. I want them to pull hard aginst the resistance, to build up the sprint type musculature and the endurance to drive forward for extended periods. With a youngster, I almost always road on foot with the dog pulling against my weight. Doing it this way, I can detect the instant the dog stops pulling and if it is due to fatigue or overheating, I can stop before the dog overexerts.

I very often road dogs in the heat, to build up their tolerance to heat during strenuous exercise, as well as conditioning them to come to me for water, on command, and taking it from the squirt bottle. Naturally I watch the dog closely, push the envelope gradually and carry plenty of water should it be necessary. It is crucial not to allow the dog to overheat because that can completely destroy the dog's heat tolerance, and it may be gone forever according to a study that was conducted a few years back.

I find that extending the dog's ability to run in the heat though this type of condition can pay off big time when competing in the early season trials.

I find that a dog that can pull against resistance steadily, for 15-20 minutes in the heat can run for a half hour in that same heat, in front of a horse. A dog that can pull hard and steadily for a half hour can usually do an hour in front of a horse without fading. A dog that can pull me steady for 45 minutes in the heat can run their hour in the heat and finish strong... driving ...going away.

RayG

[DGFavor]

IMO, their skeletal structure is too immature for that type of stress, and like race horses, these amped up young dogs aren't going to be significantly slowed down by the small aches and pains until the big injury hits 'em. Why risk it in such young prospects - what's to gain really?? I don't road too much anyway with the older dogs and never before about 2 years of age. It's all free running and hunting at their own speed in the country they'll be doing their job for years to come. Works for me anyway!

I'm not a big fan of purposefully working them in the heat either - they just get hot and can't push themselves or maintain the pace that really improves their cardiovascular endurance IMO. I've been much happier with the results I've gotten free running 'em a hard hour or more in the cool of the morning than stuggling them through a laggard half hour back n forth for water in the heat of the day. I read somewhere a couple years ago that dogs worked in the heat...just get hot!

Ray's right on, the early fall trials and hunting seasons can be a killer - so conditioning in whatever fashion you feels works best or gets the results you want is vital to not just success but the health and safety of the dogs!!

[RayGubernat]

Doug -

I have found that slow roading against resistance can indeed gradually improve the performance and heat tolerance of a dog, if it is done carefully and thoughtfully. Sled dog reseach has documented improved heat tolerance in dogs that were conditioned. The key is doing it in a gradually increasing manner.

That is why I do it on foot and I typically do it one or at most two dogs at a time. That and, to be honest...two of my dogsdragging me along is pretty tough on this old fart's back and legs.

Free running a dog, to me is far preferable than roading a dog, at speed, off a 4 wheeler or bicycle. I think free running exercises a far wider range of muscles in the dog in a far more realistic way. On that we agree competely. But for some, free running is simply not an option so roading off a bike or ATV or whatever is better than nothing.

I would add that I run trial bred pointers which are(hopefully) genetically predisposed to this kind of conditioning and heat stress. I certainly would not expect a longer haired dog to perform at the level of a shorter haired dog...at least not initially. I would also expect that the conditioning process, especially the heat tolerance portion, would take longer for a longer haired dog and have to be done with even more care and attention.

Part of the reason I do it the way I do is to improve the performance of the dog at a trial, but the greater part is to assure myself that the dog will be able to get out there and hammer the course, running wide open... and not injure itself in the process.

The kind of dogs I like don't have any quit in them and that is exactly the kind of dog whose unquenchable desire will keep it going until it falls over on its nose, perhaps dong permanent harm to itself in its zeal to hunt.

RayG

[Sharon]

This is all very good stuff.
I've wondered about this for a long time.
Thankyou.

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

But Ray, you know that most 8 month old pointers are really 3 years old!! SORRY!!

Keith, I will start a pup, of 6-10 months learning to road, in the harness with an older dog, for 10 minutes a couple of times a week. Once the dog is 12 months, I'll road beginning in November or so, 'course that's Texas, around 15 minutes 3 times a week. once they're 15 months it's up to about 20 minutes 3 or 4 times a week. Always on grass with a little gravel, to build paw toughness, wind, and muscle. I vary speeds so that we are building the wind and the muscle during the same roading session. Like Doug said, under a year, it's just too hard on them to actually do anything but let them learn the procedure for a few minutes.

[Wa Chukar Hunter]

Thanks - that is what I had thought - I had never done any roading of dogs under 1 yr of age and mostly not before 18 months - just thought I would ask about it

Keith

[GRIFF MAN]

Can some of you show us your roading set up. Or how you road. I'm looking at doing it also, but not sure on the set up. Should I use, bike, atv, truck......?

Thanks,

Griff

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

You'll get total contradictions of this I'm sure Griff, but use an ATV. You can control speed better, better resistance, you can watch dogs and look for physical stress of injury.

[GRIFF MAN]

You'll get total contradictions of this I'm sure Griff, but use an ATV. You can control speed better, better resistance, you can watch dogs and look for physical stress of injury.

How do you set it up?? pvc pipe hanging off the sides?? or metal bars??

thanks

Griff

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

I went to the local steel/pipe shop and had them cut three total pieces of square angle iron. One piece fits on the front of the ATV, BOLTED on, hanging over each side about 3 inches. Slightly smaller pieces, around 3 feet each, telescope into the mounted piece and are attached via clips. Drilled holes in each outside end of the two smaller pieces and mounted eyebolts hanging down toward ground. Connected a two dog coupling to each one, roading harnesses from each of those. Can road 4 dogs at once from front. I don't need to be able to road more than that or I'd build another set-up for rear of machine.

If you look in the American Field, several companies sell complete roading set-ups with all hardware for around $200 plus. You can easily build one for about $30.

Many use U bolts to attach to the bumper or grill, but they come loose. If you bolt them to the grill, and use a power drill, they will stay tight for years, no matter how much dogs pull and jerk.

[WildRose]

Can some of you show us your roading set up. Or how you road. I'm looking at doing it also, but not sure on the set up. Should I use, bike, atv, truck......?

Thanks,

Griff

Griff this is a lot more than you'd need but it'll give you an idea.

I had a cargo holder made for the front and rear of my 4 wheeler. The front bottom piece is 1/14" square tubing. I used 1"heavy wall for the outriggers and they just slide in about six inches, extending another 40" to each side. There's a hole drilled through both the 1 and 1 1/4 and it's held in place with just a ring snap pin. Easy on, easy off in about thirty seconds. My drops are a single piece of chain coming down to a swivel, then about six inches of chain (2) going to each dog.

You can make the same thing with just a single bar going across the front of your cargo rack if you like but those factory racks are really flimsy and tend to get torn up pretty easily if you don't attach it to the right places.


You don't have to get nearly that elaborate for just one or two dogs though.

http://www.wildrosegermanshorthairs.com ... ading2.jpg

I don't road puppies in harness I think it's a bad plan, too much stress, wear and tear, on joints, tendons and ligaments. I like to have them at pretty much 90% or so of full growth before they do any resistance work. When it's time though I just put them in a harness and free run them a few minutes, then attach some light chains on leaders so they learn to deal with and enjoy the pulling for a lap or two around the training grounds. Usually they jump right in with it after that.

Up to that point in time all they get is free running. CR

[original mngsp]

I have a 1 yr old GSP girl that I started to introduce to roading and the harness around 10 months. It was around 5-10 minutes per session 1-2 times a week at around 5mph off the ATV. At this point it was more or less a mechanized version of a walk.

I did this for about two months. I'm in an outlying suburb that has enough room that I eventually road my dogs on blacktop county highways with me on the blacktop shoulder and the dog running on the gravel shoulder, right now its just the residential roads. During the first two months the most important thing is getting them used to the enviroment, the noise of the ATV, the harness, a few cars, bicycilists, garbage cans, etc. Like anything else for a dog it has to be fun and comfortable or else you wont get what you want.

The last couple of weeks I have ben doing 20 minutes split evenly between a 5 mph walk and a 10-12 mph light run. She likes it a lot, when she hears the ATV start up in the morning she goes beserk and wants to go, a sure sign all the prelim work has paid off.

After a few more weeks I will move her out onto the county road and eventually will work her up to 45-60 minutes varying between 10-17 mph. But the key is to watch the dog and make sure she's comfortable and only extend the experience when shes is showing complete comfort at the prior level of roading.

While roading is good I still try to at least once a week get somewhere to free run the dog. If your on foot thats ok, but better yet is being on a horse or ATV and let them air it all out.

I'll try to get some pics of my roading rig posted. Pretty simple stuff as Blake mentioned but very effective.

[Casper]

It's all free running and hunting at their own speed in the country they'll be doing their job for years to come.

The more I learn about dogs the more I like this statement. After getting into trialing and watching many dogs from different parts of the west I am seeing different performances. I am starting to think that free running in somewhat straining conditions in a pups early development has allot to do with its adult abilities. I am starting to see it in my own dogs but maybe its kennel blindness

FWIW

[Wa Chukar Hunter]

Well, due to our ATV being in the shop for a week or so - We had to road the old fashioned way. We saddled Codeman and Bob. Daniel and I each took a dog and roaded them for 30 minutes from our horses. We also took a pair of young derbies and let them free run while we were roading the big dogs. We did this 3 times today - some of the young dogs were 1/4 to 1/2 mile away from us - pointing and chasing birds.

After we were done roading I saddled our new mare and went out again with Codeman and the new mare - she did a fine job - nice smooth gait but she is a big horse. I am sure after a summer up here she will be great.

Keith - Posting from Under the Rusty Windmill

[luke0927]

You'll get total contradictions of this I'm sure Griff, but use an ATV. You can control speed better, better resistance, you can watch dogs and look for physical stress of injury.

How do you set it up?? pvc pipe hanging off the sides?? or metal bars??

thanks

Griff

I used PVC setting on the front rack then with pipe clamps i tighten it down to the rack, and i can remove it when done......I drilled a hole and ran the lead down with a snap on the end works great.

[GRIFF MAN]

You'll get total contradictions of this I'm sure Griff, but use an ATV. You can control speed better, better resistance, you can watch dogs and look for physical stress of injury.

How do you set it up?? pvc pipe hanging off the sides?? or metal bars??

thanks

Griff

I used PVC setting on the front rack then with pipe clamps i tighten it down to the rack, and i can remove it when done......I drilled a hole and ran the lead down with a snap on the end works great.

Any pictures of this set up??

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

Griff, I'd tell you to look closely at Charlie's set up. Mine is about the same. Just make sure the dog on the inside cannot get under the tires.

[Rock]

I don't road a dog until about two years old or so. They are not fully developed and a healthy young dog does not need roading in my opinion. Free running gets them in great shape on it's own. In a trial dog (derby) they are only running for a half hour anyhow and if they can't make that they are in poor condition. Not to say anyone is right or wrong but I have had great success doing it this way for years. And none of my dogs have ever had any injuries.