"rastling"

[pakratt]

I am new to gun dogs so this my be a really stupid question.

My 13 week old brit loves to wrestle with me and horse around. I've had trainers and non-trainers give me different perspectives on this. Now every dog I have had since I was two has loved to rough house, play fetch, and just be a puppy- and not a single one turned out bad. So why is so bad for a hunting dog? I've also been told to not use treats and to limit the time I play. I thought puppies were supposed to play games like fetch? Why are gun dogs so different?

[ezzy333]

There is nothing wong with wrestling with your pup. I just wouldn't play tug of war as that can lead to the pup not giving you the bird after a retrieve. Have fun with your pup for the next few months and then you can get serious about training.


Ezzy

[wems2371]

I'm guessing maybe someone will post about dominance issues and wrestling with your puppy. My puppy loved to (and still does occasionally at 1 year old) to roughhouse and I have no apparent issues. To me the important factor is to have her follow my rules with no exception. When we're playing, we're playing--but when I say NO we're done, then we're done that instant. I also didn't allow biting/nipping. To me, you can have times of fun like that as long as you make sure you equal it out with discipline (i.e. I'm the Boss and you will follow my rules). Kind of the same path I take with kids.

I thought just about everyone that wanted a retrieving pup played fetch at some point, but obviously you've been told different at some point. I can't think of a better way to train a young pup to retrieve, without them even knowing it's training. Like Ezzy said, no tug-of-war is what I've heard--unless you want to play that with all your future shredded retrieved birds. I can't imagine you can play too much with a pup, as long as you balance it out with age appropriate training........and doggie naps.

I have given treats often as an incentive. During crate training, my puppy got a small treat bite every time she went in for the night. She also got a treat for coming to the door when out for a potty break and after lying still to have her nails trimmed. I did initially use a small treat for puppy recalls, but as we started doing serious retrieving work, I had to stop that. When she came back with the retrieved item, she would drop it to receive the treat. I was not okay with that, as I want her to hold the item/bird until I have her drop it to hand. Once the treats aided in the desired result, I would become sporadic in handing them out, as I wanted to know she would do a task for me and not just the treat. Both my dogs get treats to this day, sometimes for doing something right and other times 'just because'. Just my thoughts. Denise

[RayGubernat]

Pakratt -

I have always roughhoused with all my dogs. Not just as puppies either. I will mess with a dog of any age. if it is playtime and it wants to play, I go for it. I will bait them, tease them, run toward them, run away from them lay down and wrestle with them, play hide the ball and whatever else comes to mind. The only thing I do not tolerate is biting down, for obvious reasons. If a dog want to mouth my hand or arm, foot or calf, I don't have a problem with it as long as the teeth do not start to clamp down. I will actually tease a dog with my forearm to try and get it to take the arm in its mouth. Most will not and if they do, they are very gentle and tentative about it. If the jaws do start to clamp down, even a little, playtime is over for that dog and a training session commences instantly. Boundaries are, after all, boundaries.

Play is play. Work is work. Mine know the difference, I think.

RayG

[bobman]

actaully wrestling with dominant dogs can make them get over their issue faster, done correctly you can turn things that trigger dominace reactions into play so the dog lightens up

[jstead]

ctaully wrestling with dominant dogs can make them get over their issue faster, done correctly you can turn things that trigger dominace reactions into play so the dog lightens up

Unless you consistently lose...

[RayGubernat]

Unless you consistently lose...

That is an easy one...don't lose! Not ever!


That is right up there with:

"Don't give a command that you are not in a position to enforce."
and

"Don't pick a fight unless you are pretty sure you can win." (Unless the engine is running and you are close to the door)

RayG

[3Britts]

There is nothing wong with wrestling with your pup. I just wouldn't play tug of war as that can lead to the pup not giving you the bird after a retrieve. Have fun with your pup for the next few months and then you can get serious about training.


Ezzy

Absolutely.
Puppies are full of energy and should be played with. In fact, I still play with my older dogs when I get the chance. So far, it has not effected their hunting skills.

[subatomicstang]

My 5 month old seems to have a dominant streak! At times he will get to where he just tries to avoid simple command like down, and if you put your hands on his shoulder or anything and try to put pressure to go down he will growl last night he apparently growled and nipped my wife? How should we go about these issues as far as training and correcting the dog without making them worse? She reacted quickly and popped him in the nose probably more of a reflex action and i am sure it was nothing hard, but i was reading somewhere that reacting with anything physical can make it worse? he is only 5 months i dont feel threatened or anything he is just stubborn at times.

-Randy

[Benny]

Randy,
MikeB on this forum is a helpful dog trainer that has very good advice in dog behavior. I was worried about our dog who acts aggressive ONLY around the house, and is very guarded of me and my girlfriend when others come over. She has never shown aggression towards us, though. Either way, when researching it, many behaviorists agreed that physical reaction could worsen a dog with aggressive tendencies (not to say your dog is mean or anything). Confirmed by the Oregon Humane Society behaviorists I talked to over the phone.
Two things come to mind. One, be real careful forcing a dog down, especially dogs like most of us on here have, since they will all be prone to hip and joint problems in the future. I doubt you were shoving him down hard, but I thought I should toss it out there, because you won't see the effects of such treatment until years down the road.
Secondly, that sort of reaction to its owners warrants a return reaction from you, in my humble opinion. I'm not certain what kind of reaction, and I would ask around, but since dogs understand pack leadership, I would think that the instant that happened you could grab the pup by the scruff, roll it on its back and give it the lightest shake while saying "NO." This sort of throws the dog back to reality and instantly you'll see puppy eyes and ears back with an expression that says "oh crap, did I do something wrong?"
If a second opinion agrees with the latter suggestion, make sure you don't scream NO!, just say it firmly in a calm voice (if that's possible). Also, don't continue to embarrass the dog or degrade, a simple roll and shake and its over with, then ignore the whole scene like it didn't happen.
Kosher?

[GsPJustin]

I rough house with my dogs as long as they can fwiw.

[subatomicstang]

ill give that a try if it happaens again. he definitely isn't a mean dog and he nothing but nice and playful to other animals. he just gets to where he wants to be playing and doesn't want you to be making him listen.

[BellaDad]

You have to keep in mind that with a 5mo pup that it is still just that, a pup. Do your kids always listen, teenagers? When my 5mo gets really tired, or hungry she is crazy. She gets this nutty look and runs and bounces off the walls pretty much. But I know that's the kind of thing she'll grow out of. It is the only time she jumps, occasionally nips, and the like. I let her know I don't like it with a grab of the scruff and a growly no right in her ear and walk away. Sometimes it works others she chases and tries to play some more. But she's still all puppy so I'm not overly worried.

[gonehuntin']

Rough housing with pups and dogs is fine as long as you don't let them bite!!!!!] That's the problem with wrestling. A dog uses it's mouth and when you let them grab your arm, etc, you're teaching them it's ok to bite. I also rough house with mine, but there is no biting allowed. I allow them to take my arm or hand in their mouth, as long as they don't bite.

[natetnc]

i think i love wrestling with my dogs as much as they do my female likes to be mouthy (like most, j/k) and try to talk, its funny and everyone gets a laugh. my male is still a bit timid around me when i move quickly but wrestling and playing with him is bringing him out of his shell and helping him get over that problem. like said, the main thing is not to lose or act like you lost and to have it stop as soon as you say so. oh, and be careful, roll with enough weight on one of those legs and you will have a bit of a problem.

[subatomicstang]

yeah I think we forget sometimes thata he is only 5 months old because he is 50 lbs already. im gonna look into getting some obediance training just to have a professional opinion on obediance I feel that if he can master that the rest should be instinctively and a lot easier

[ezzy333]

If a second opinion agrees with the latter suggestion, make sure you don't scream NO!, just say it firmly in a calm voice (if that's possible). Also, don't continue to embarrass the dog or degrade, a simple roll and shake and its over with, then ignore the whole scene like it didn't happen.
Kosher?

I had no idea you could embarass a dog! And I would do just the opposite. I would make sure he knew it was wrong and one way to do that is to hold him down for a period of time so he learns who is dominant and who makes the decisions in your household.

Ezzy

[subatomicstang]

my pup definatelty does not like being held down especially for a long period of time he will def growl and start chompin. what do I do in that aspect? I think he was the dominant one in his litter due to his size advantage he was the last male and I wanted him so im gonna do what it takes to train him I love this dog more than myself.

[gonehuntin']

Hold him there until he stops, tell him NO, and slap his mouth.