Help I created a monster...............Need advice!!

[Coach529]

1510.1

OK, first a little history.

I have a 2 year old gordon that is obedience trained.......heel, come, kennel, etc.

I did not shoot any birds over her the first year, but she did get to do some short retrieves on wild flush birds that I shot. She had no pressure on her this first season......my goal was to get her out on as many birds as possible.

Last year she started pointing a bit more solid and I shot some birds over her. Her retrieving got a bit better and she really came into her own.

This season she has had a couple mediocre points, but mostly she has been busting birds. She has gotten ahold of 5 cripples (shot by someone else and left in the field) this year while hunting, and that combined with me shooting some birds from questionable points in sloughs has created a Gordon Flusher.

The last 3-4 times out I have let alot of birds fly because of her busting them. I have been shooting wild flushing birds(I only shoot the birds if they flush nowhere near the dog), and letting her retreive them.

I am looking for some advice on the best route to try and get my pointer back.

Do I stop shooting wild flushes all together so she does not get the reward of the retreive??

Will wild bird contacts alone fix this?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[romeo212000]

Yes stop shooting wild flushes. There are a number of things you did very wrong but I am not going to go into those, because the important thing is how you move forward from here since we cannot change the post. Wild birds will help a great deal but you need some more intensive training. Locate a remote launcher and put it out with a bird. Work her into the bird and as soon as you know she has made scent launch the bird and Woah her. Let the bird fly. Pick her up literally and set her back to where she first made scent and set her down and tell her to woah. Make her stand there for a minute and let it all soak in. Then release her with a head tap. I would recommend doing this only twice per training session to make sure she doesnt get bored with it. . The very first time she points, and holds steady all the way through the flush shoot the bird and let her retrieve it and, pet her and tell her what a good dog she is then put her up for the day. Do not get caught up in the "One More Time" syndrome. Each time she does it right put her up immediately after. Do this until she has had about ten birds shot over her. then you can start working her on maybe two birds at a time because it should be pretty much ingrained. Once she is consistently getting it right do not let up. It is much easier to keep up training than to retrain.

[gonehuntin']

Gordon's are very stubborn dogs. Sometimes they need a little pressure. It's fine to think "Let wild bird's teach him", but I'll tell you right now, with some setters I've had, I'd have a beard a foot long waiting for them to stop busting them. Use launchers and when he busts the bird, shake him up a little and put him back, whoaing him. A few of them never learn this. I had an English once that I'd empty a transmitter a day on and he was never, till his dieing day, a reliable pointer. Fine flushin' dog though.

[Coach529]

There are a number of things you did very wrong

Can you elaborate on this??

[Sharon]

Gordon's are very stubborn dogs. Sometimes they need a little pressure. It's fine to think "Let wild bird's teach him", but I'll tell you right now, with some setters I've had, I'd have a beard a foot long waiting for them to stop busting them. Use launchers and when he busts the bird, shake him up a little and put him back, whoaing him. A few of them never learn this. I had an English once that I'd empty a transmitter a day on and he was never, till his dieing day, a reliable pointer. Fine flushin' dog though.

It 's good to hear an expert say that he hasn't been successful with every dog. Some dogs just............ Makes me feel better when I too just can't get through to a dog.

[romeo212000]

There are a number of things you did very wrong

Can you elaborate on this??

Well the main thing is shooting birds over her that she did not point and was not steady with. I also start shooting birds over a dog at around the age of 4 to 5 months, and by a year old they have had several pen raised birds over them and hopefully a few wild birds. I dont expect them to be totally staunch but they should be pointing by 4 or 5 months and when they do I have them on a check cord and have someone hold them while I flush and shoot the bird. When the pup gets older, say around 8 to 10 months, then I go to the launcher work after I have woah broke the dog. The age at which you can do any kind of breaking with a dog varies but I woah broke my youngest dog at 7 months. I pretty much do exactly what I described to you with the launcher until I feel confident I dont need the launcher anymore and can just plant birds. A lot of times when you have moved to planted birds insteady of launcher birds you might see more intensity from the dogs point because a bird by itself gives off more scent than a bird in a launcher.

[Coach529]

One problem is she is not whoa broke yet. Should I do this before I move forward?

[slistoe]

Yes.

[fuess]

This surprises me , with Hubert on one of the sides, and knowing some of the other dogs. I think he knows he "dooesnt have to" point to get a bird.

You and I have dogs with similar pedigrees, and simailr ages. I have more Tartana on my side, but just make Bella understand, no point no bird. The Hubert genes from what I have seen is strong on the retrieve, you have nothing to worry about there. Just pass on shooting the wild flush.

Work a few birds( as others have said) on a check cord, and you should be good to go. I have seen too many of these dogs, to know they are smarter than that, and all you have to do is reset the rules, and you will be fine!

Dont fret, you and BElla will be fine!

If you have any doubts, call Bob or Jonathon, they have been around the Gordons long enough to help you out and solve the poblem. Bella is still young, it will work out.

Fuess

[Coach529]

This surprises me , with Hubert on one of the sides, and knowing some of the other dogs. I think he knows he "dooesnt have to" point to get a bird.

You and I have dogs with similar pedigrees, and simailr ages. I have more Tartana on my side, but just make Bella understand, no point no bird. The Hubert genes from what I have seen is strong on the retrieve, you have nothing to worry about there. Just pass on shooting the wild flush.

Work a few birds( as others have said) on a check cord, and you should be good to go. I have seen too many of these dogs, to know they are smarter than that, and all you have to do is reset the rules, and you will be fine!

Dont fret, you and BElla will be fine!

If you have any doubts, call Bob or Jonathon, they have been around the Gordons long enough to help you out and solve the poblem. Bella is still young, it will work out.

Fuess

Thanks for the kind words. I am hoping Bon is coming up my way next wek to hunt. That way he can watch her and give me some advice. She is truely a wonderfull dog and I am sure reseting the rules will go fine.......and am just too green to know the right way to do it!!

Can someone recommend a cheap remote launcher?

[fuess]

One other thing, if using released birds or at a preserve, less is more. When I started shooting birds over MacDuff last year, I would only put out at most 5-8 birds over a large area. I wanted the dog to work for each bird, and handle it correctly. My opinion, too many birds for a young dog is a bad thing, but just my opinion.

The other thing, too many birds, if used to alot of birds, they gte bored when wild bird hunting becauee they are used to stumbling over birds every 50 yds or so.

JMO!

FUess

[gonehuntin']

One other thing, if using released birds or at a preserve, less is more. When I started shooting birds over MacDuff last year, I would only put out at most 5-8 birds over a large area. I wanted the dog to work for each bird, and handle it correctly. My opinion, too many birds for a young dog is a bad thing, but just my opinion.

The other thing, too many birds, if used to alot of birds, they gte bored when wild bird hunting becauee they are used to stumbling over birds every 50 yds or so.

JMO!

FUess

Fuess, bird dogs are made with birds. I never put out more than three at a time, but I sure as heck shoot a pile of them over a dog. In a dog's first year they will have well over 100 birds shot over him and handle many more. The more birds when properly done, the better the dog.

Other thing is, I have never, in a lifetime of dogs, ever seen a good dog get bored hunting. If you want to experience tough conditions, hunt Wi. when grouse have crashed. If I EVER had a dog quit hunting because he was bored, or any breed, he be at the pound.

[fuess]

I agree, limited amounts of birds, but lots of them. My Gordon had more than 120 birds shot over him last year between 6-10 months, just not 25 at a time. We are in agreement.

BTW- Both My Gordons are from WI. If you want to see tough consitions, try hunting them in PA. (this year seems to be an exception). I have never sen birds in PA like in WI, and I say that after 13 trips to WI. A bad yr in WI is a homerun here. SO, I think it is a little easier to make quiker birddogs out there with the amount of contacts.

JMO

Fuess

[Coach529]

Thanks for the advice guys. I have decided to put my gun away for the year and work with Bella.

This is only my second bird dog......and I have alot more to learn than she does.

Right away I plan on starting some Whoa training. Chad and Jodi Hines from Willowcreek Kennels have some great videos on U-Tube on the process, so I am going to give it a try.

I have no problem not shooting another bird for the rest of the season, (OK, it is a little tough, but I understand I am investing in better future hunting experiences) but I really do enjoy my time in the field with Bella. Is there a productive way for us to spend some time working with wild birds in the field??

Thanks Again!!

[dan v]

Gordon's are very stubborn dogs.

Some Gordon's are very stubborn dogs.

There fixed it for ya!