Newbie Questions

[crbrumbelow]

Well I got my first Pointer. It will be my first time training a dog to hunt. He is a 6 month old English Pointer out of mainly Rock acre Blackhawk, Honky Tonk Attitude, and Fibber Mcgee blood lines. I couldnt be more proud of him. To this point he has mainly just been walked every day and let run to help build confidence. We have bonded good and he doesnt hesitate to jump all over me for attention. I know he is young but I see the potential he has and the will he has to hunt so I think I am ready to procede slowly with some things like getting him used to the check cord. Teaching "here" on the check cord and working toward "whoa". I have 3 dvd's; two by Scott Miller and one by Harold Adams. Harold shows teaching a 6 month old "whoa" using the sling method and the dog does fine. Scott doesnt really state at what age it is appropriate to start with what specific training. Am I correct in assuming that if the dog just freaks at an attempt to teach something that maybe he isnt quite ready mentally for that and should back up and just steady him on a previously learned command. Thanks in advance for all your help.

I have attached a pic of him pointing a wing. He is 5 months old in the pic. Purdy aint he.

[Benny]

He's a cute dog!
It seems like it wouldn't do harm to move slowly at this point and just get him used to the cord. I don't think I would put to much pressure on him for the next 3 months or so, but that's just what I've read. Others might disagree.
Heel is a great one to work on for right now. Paul Long has a good exercise for "whoa" and "heel" on the cord with a paper towel tube as a deterrent against forcing ahead. It is humane yet provides a thumping sound creating the incentive to obey.
Did I mention what a pretty dog!

[crbrumbelow]

Thanks. I have had him staked out for a couple hours for the last couple of days to see when he would get comfortable with something tugging against his neck. Iput the check cord on him for about 15 minutes and he wanted to lay down when he really felt it. I just stood him up and started walking like we were just going to check things out and he was fine. I really want to get him doing the her command without any hitch no matter what the distraction so thats my first goal.

I guess I really didnt ask too many questions in the first post. I just want to be sure I am doing what everyone else is doing as far as time table goes for his age. And I know to go slow and not destroy him.

[RayGubernat]

crbrumbelow -

Nice looking youngster. Good luck with him.

I think here is a very good place to begin your training, but I would like to offer a bit of perspective and one piece of advice to you if I may...

The breeding of your youngster, especially the Blackhawk and Attitude stuff is pretty high octane. They want to hunt...every day...all day. They live and breathe to hunt.

I have had high energy pointers all my life and one thing that has served me well is to make REAL GOOD friends with that dog as a youngster. I have found that a pointer will stay with you and come back for you if it likes you and respects you. If it don't...it won't.

If your dog thinks the sun rises and sets on you, it will willingly run itself into the ground to hunt with you and for you. If the dog does not like you and respect you, it will, sooner or later, give you the 'ol fazoole and hunt for itself. All the training in the world, the hottest, longest range e-collar, whatever, it don't matter. If the dog wants to be around you you won't lose it. If it doesn't want to be around you, it'll get gone.

I use, and heartily recommend a variation of Paul Long's heel/whoa drill on all my youngsters. Instead of a checkcord, I use a pigging string, which is the poor man's version of a Delmar Smith wonder lead.

Again...gopod luck to you both. Go slowly, keep it fun for both of you.

RayG

[gar-dog]

Well I got my first Pointer. It will be my first time training a dog to hunt.

Fine looking fellow and you are in for loads of fun. But let's get things straight, this dog is going to teach YOU to hunt!

Enjoy and congrats. I got my first pup Fall 2007 and we are having a blast.
Gary

[crbrumbelow]

LOL ok ok so we are going to "refine" each others technique.

[gar-dog]

LOL ok ok so we are going to "refine" each others technique.

That's more like it. Looking back on this past year I think I initially overhandled my dog - part of my own fear/insecurity about losing her in the field, and thinking I knew where she needed to go, etc. Frankly the best advice and or comfort I got was from Ray Gubernat here about letting the dog do its thing. I have bonded very well with my dog, and yep the sun rises and sets with me in her eyes. Once I learned to relax and shut up in the field, we've had a much more relaxing and enjoyable time.

[live4point]

I see you have got some good advice from others and thought I might add something to help with your pup-Put the wing on the pole away and save it for your next pup,everyone likes to see thier pup point but you know yours will,so the next thing he points should be the real thing.I have seen a lot of dogs screwed up by over using the wing on a string-It trains the dog to point by sight,which is not what you want in the field,you want him pointing by smell,and a dog thats used to seeing what it is pointing tends to also want to get right on top of a bird even when he does smell it so he can see it.Good luck with your pup,hope it is a dandy!

[crbrumbelow]

Oh yeah. He hasnt seen the wing on the string in weeks now. I took him yesterday to a field with pen raised quail and he didnt point but he did use his nose and found all 5. When he smelled them I could see it in him and I would make sure and not let him get the birds. It was kind of a happy time day. The only command I gave was "here". I just wanted to get him excited about going in the field. In todays training session you could really see it. He did a lot more smelling and hunting. We are working on "Whoa" and he is getting it really good. No pressure still just lots of happy praise when he does the command right, and he loves it. Another 2 to 3 weeks of "whoa" and I am gonna start taking him to the field with pigeons and let him chase em when they flush to get him real excited. Then maybe introduce a gun when he is chasing.

[Benny]

Then maybe introduce a gun when he is chasing.

It all sounds pretty good up until that point. I wouldn't shoot over him when he's chasing. In fact you can probably wait on the gun even longer.
When you go out, keep him on that cord. If you can plant birds, FLAG them. This will help you know exactly when your dog is close, and you can tighten that cord on him once he's moved close enough without bumping the bird. If he's at the point where he'll stop and throw his tail up, walk your way up the cord using your hands but keeping tension. As you approach, just stroke his belly a couple times and say "good boy." You can then either pick him up (2 hands under his waist and chest) and move him away from the bird towards a new one...or you can walk in and kick the bird up. If you kick the bird up, he'll want to chase. Politely get his attention off the bird and say good boy again...move on.
After a whole bunch of that, then I would bring a friend and introduce the gun at a very very far distance. Your friend can shoot over the bird, or shoot the bird if you're ready for retrieving. This timeline is not in days. Weeks, months, more like it.
Good luck!

[crbrumbelow]

He's already heard guns at a disance with other dogs that are not gun shy at all around. We shoot skeet about 150 yards from the kennel and where we turn out birds to work dogs is only about the same distance. He isnt gun shy at that distance at all.

[myerstenn]

I am not a big advocate of putting or forcing dosgs on birds at a young age. They need to have fun in the field ,chase birds etc. If you can occassionally get him on some johhy house birds that he cant ketch you would probably be better of.At six months I would only be working on the word her, getting him use to the chain gang. When he starts pointing johnny house birds on a regular basis youll be able to tell when he is asking to be staunced up. Then whoa break him. Take your time have with him.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

I am not a big advocate of putting or forcing dosgs on birds at a young age. They need to have fun in the field ,chase birds etc. If you can occassionally get him on some johhy house birds that he cant ketch you would probably be better of.At six months I would only be working on the word her, getting him use to the chain gang. When he starts pointing johnny house birds on a regular basis youll be able to tell when he is asking to be staunced up. Then whoa break him. Take your time have with him.

Ned~I agree. Why do people think that pups need to behave like adults. I consider mine pups up until they are at least one year old, then they are Derbys, not adults.

All dogs have their own timeline. I have owned at least a dozen GSPs, and only one could handle the pressure at a young age. And I don't even know if that is true, because he was my first dog, and probably taught me more about bird dogs than I ever taught him.

The Adams video is a good one, I know Harold personally and he is one heck of a trainer. With that said, videos are basically just an overview of methods, not the complete story. Timing is the key with all methods, that means being able to read the dog and react with praise or corrections at the propper time and level.

Get with a pro in your area, and volunteer to help him with whatever needs done. You will be amazed what you can learn when you are there in person and get to work different dogs in order to help you learn how to read different dogs.

Doug