Easiest way to steady a dog without help?

[rkelly]

Just wondering what everybody thinks is the easiest way to steady a dog without any help? I have remote launchers and up to this point have been bringing her into the bird on CC and let her establish point. Once she establishes point if she moves at all I pop the bird. She is holding point longer each time, but chases when I pop the bird. How do you take this chase out? I have also whoad her, walked out in front of her where I know she can't wind the bird and dropped birds. She stands well for this. The thing is if she does moves and I am all alone how can I reinforce it. She is collar conditioned for whoa but I am a little lenient to stimulate her while on birds. I was thinking of whoaing her and staking her down so she can't chase, but not sure if that is a good idea or not.

[GSPVIZ]

I was thinking of getting one of these to help me work with my dog. Since I do most of my training alone, I hope it will stop her from creeping up when I go in to flush.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/asporwhopos.html

[postoakshorthairs]

Do you have more than one launcher? I put a few birds in seperate launchers and bring the dog into point. While it's holding point I'll pop one launcher (dogs on check chord or buddy stick) and will break as you explained. I'll bring the dog back to position of original point and they'll recapture the scent of the remaining birds and re-establish a point...repeat. Usually it doesn't take too many sessions of this until they figure out that they don't need to chase the first bird because there are probably more in there.

[Ridge-Point]

You can always pop the bird while you stand behind her with check cord in hand. I have always taught my dogs to stop with a slight tug on the CC, then I transfer that to a nick with the collar. You simply do the same training on birds. Once I have stopped the dog a few times on birds with the CC I start using the collar. Once the dog is steady and used to the collar, then start walking out in front and kicking around. Proper use of the e-collar is the easiest way to get through it.

You are teaching your dog to stand still when a bird flys, it's as simple as that. The bird flying is the command to whoa, if you do this right you shouldn't have to say a word to the dog.

Don't work your dog too fast on this stuff, a few birds a week is plenty, you don't want the dog getting bored.


Hope that helps

Justin

[Bailey]

Best thing to do it NOT to let her move. Get her on a pinch collar and walk her up to the bird (have 2 or 3 birds in launchers). When she establishes point let her sit there for a while dont say anything Grab her by the end of the collar and pop the first bird, when she goes to take off she will correct herself with the collar. Give her that Whoa command as you put her back into place and style her back up. Also try sweet talking the dog. Let her stand there for a few minutes without saying anything. If she starts to go soft before 2 or 3 minutes pop another bird (hold onto the end of the collar), shes going to jump again so put her back into her spot and tell her whoa. When you pop the 3rd bird and reset her let her stand there for a minute then pick her up and carry her off. After this point on the dog isnt to move once it establishes point so until you are getting a dog thats 100% rock solid and wont move no matter where the birds are flushed and shot.

Once she will stand for you no matter how many birds are flushed infront of her. Start letting birds go from your vest. She needs to learn that no matter where they are flying from she cant move. Once you can pretty well get her to stand still no matter what I would start introducing the gun.

Another game I found worked was I put the dog on whoa in the yard and let a pigeon just walk around. The dog may bust a few times and flush the bird but you just reset her and put another pigeon out. Eventually it got to the point where the pigeon would stand right under neath the dog and the dog still wouldnt move.

Eventually she will figure the game out.

I have alos used the half hitch around their flank. Same thing but instead of the pinch collar giving stimulation its the half hitch.

The trick is going to be making the dog think theres ALWAYS 1 more bird there and she is going to bump it if she moves. This way your going to get a dog that will hold point all day long and do it with intensity and style.

[RayGubernat]

rkelly -

Bailey suggested a method that is not too awful far from what I do with mine.

First thing I do is heel/whoa drills in the yard using a wonder lead. Then I transition to a prong collar(a pinch collar would work about the same). Then, when the dog is ready I take it out on a cc into launchers. I have the prong collar on but the cord is attached to the dog's flat collar.

I bring the dog in crosswind to the launchers and locate the launcher(s) such that I can tie the dog off to a fencepost or tree. If the dog stops and stands, I tie it off with just a tiny bit of slack and quietly slide up the CC and switch it to the prong collar. Then I go to flush. If the dog breaks, it disciplines itself.

Be careful with those step in anchors. I had one pull out and nearly take my head off.

RayG

[GSPVIZ]

Be careful with those step in anchors. I had one pull out and nearly take my head off.

I was thinking the same thing, they sure aren't very long.

[Benny]

I looked at them...$29.00 for a piece of rebar with a snap? Ouch

[zzweims]

Train in trees. We have several stands of young pine on our property. If I'm training a dog alone at this level, that's where I plant the birds. When the dog goes on point, I do a half loop with the cc around the nearest tree, then move forward using myself as the anchor. Sometimes--cord too short, dog too far from tree--it will be necessary to tie the cc to the nearest tree. But I find that the dog and I both can become distracted as I fumble to tie and untie knots. Do not waste your money on those anchor dealies. It is Murphy's Law that the ground will either be too hard to get them in/out or too soft to hold them. Plus it's one more bleeping thing to carry.

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

[RayGubernat]

Guys -

I have a step in anchor, built a little difrferently than the one pictured and it actually works quite well, if you remember to put the anchor into the dirt at an acute angle to the dog(kinda like a "dead man").

The dog that almost did me in was a youngster about 50# and I had stepped it in straight up and down.

Trees work well. On that we agree completely.

RayG

[gar-dog]

Didn't someone have a thread about a 4-6 foot piece of PVC pipe that you run a lead through, so you can get in front of the dog but essentially keep it back at flush because the pipe is stiff?

[postoakshorthairs]

Yeah. there was a post a while back on it...it's a buddy stick, buddy pole etc.. That is what I was referring to in my post in this thread. It doesn't have a lead through it but has a snap on the end to hook directly to the collar of the dog. When you get in front of the dog you can press it toward the dogs chest and "whoa" them so they can't come forward. It works great and gives you a lot more control from each direction. I use a six foot piece of one inch pvc with a cap on the end. You drill a hole through the cap and bolt a eye hook through the end and attach a snap.

[postoakshorthairs]

Here are a couple of different pics of the pole in use. I sometimes snap a pinch collar if a dog is bull headed but most understand just from the pressure.

[R-Middleton]

I like to teach the pup stop to flush on a bird that they don't smell first, then it is much easier to teach them to stop with a bird that has been pointed. Any method that doesn't put too much pressure on the pup and keeps them from chasing will work.

Good luck
Ray

[Benny]

I like to teach the pup stop to flush on a bird that they don't smell first, then it is much easier to teach them to stop with a bird that has been pointed. Any method that doesn't put too much pressure on the pup and keeps them from chasing will work.

Good luck
Ray

Hey Ray, could you explain this one a bit more? The part about stopping them on a bird they don't smell is confusing me.

Thanks

[Bailey]

Benny it teaches the dog that no matter what a bird in the air means Whoa no Go.

[Benny]

Oh a bumped bird or wild flush...sure. Misinterpretation. I thought we were talking about a bird still in cover that hadn't been scented. I was imagining halting a dog that had no understanding of why.

[Ridge-Point]

Benny,

Think of it this way.

You have a bird in a launcher and you bring your dog in above the scent cone, so he has no idea the bird is there. You then pop the bird and stop the dog, teaching the dog to stop on a flush.

You aren't messing with a dog that has established point, which is a bonus to this, but you are giving reinforcement around birds.

Now when you stop a dog after he has established point he already knows to stand still when the bird flys, but may still require correction. He has already kinda been through the drill before hand. Less pressure on the dog=more style.

[Neil Mace]

After training whoa on the barrel, I move to the Buddy Stick and e-collar. Whoa, one time, means whoa.

Before the Buddy Stick, I used trees, too, it works.

As Delmar says, I dog has to learn to stand still before it can learn anything else. Don't nag on the dog, teach it whoa means stand there no matter what.

Neil

[R-Middleton]

I think that a dog is put on birds before he has a perfect understanding of the whoa command has a very good chance of being confused. I use the place board, barrel, and then the flat ground before I ever introduce a pup to birds that have been planted or put in launchers in the field. I like to throw lots of pigeons with the pup on the place board and barrel. It not only teaches them to stand, they love it. The pups can't wait to get on the board and barrel.

Good luck,
Ray

[rkelly]

Thanks for the great ideas guys. I am going to take her out tomorrow and whoa her as to where she can't wind the bird and pop a few out of the launcher to try that. I like the idea of more than one launcher, so will have to invest in another some time. I have whoad her and let birds go out of my hand in front of her and she has no problem standing for that. I think it is just the excitement of being in the field running that gets her going. I am pretty sure if I whoa her and pop a bird out of the launcher she will stand fine. I will work on that a few weeks until she is 100% before I bring her into the birds and let her point them and take it from there.

[Dave Quindt]

Randy,

I has started writing a post describing step-by-step on how to fully break a dog. When doing it alone, the key is to do as much of it via yardwork as possible (i.e. stop to flush, stand through shot & kill, etc) before pulling it all together in the field.

But the more I think about it, IMO the best thing before you go out and buy more launchers or start down a path of training for one thing without understanding how all of this stuff fits together, I'd suggest you find some time to visit a good pro who can walk you through his method. There's so much of this that can't be easily described in an email or web post; when to use more or less pressure, when to slow down or when the dog needs to be pushed harder.

JMO,
Dave

[aylaschamp]

Without explaining my entire process, unless someone wants it, my method of making them to whoa uses a choke chain and a leash. Once they are force whoaed you can move to birds and retrieving. Some of you might know the technique I'm talking about?

[texscala]

Here is how I did it. Pups first season was spent entirely on wild birds. She would chase, bump birds, and go crazy anytime she caught scent or saw birds in the air. After about 6 weeks I had a bird crazy dog that knew she was to stop on scent or the birds would take off. I tried to get to her quickly any time she was on point and usually got a nice flush out of it. I did no whoa training until the season was over and did it on a picnic table, a trash can, anything I could think of as long as I could get a rope around her collar and up high and then back to her haunches.

After she knew to stay still on whoa we moved to a few pigeons and a check chord. To touch things up I often whoa her in the house and make her stay still while I get her food and then sit back down for a while before releasing her.

Since season #2 is over we have been out chasing chukar a few time and she has been nice and steady on them.

Here is a video of a point she held for about 8 minutes on some chukar (there were 2 in there)


My pup is not perfect but she is a lot more than I deserve in a dog and I hope to have her completely broke soon