i am in a bind and need advice on my EP

[sjkennels]

i am getting annoyed with this dog because nothing is coming together can you please help me out?

ok i need your advice on this dog. here is what jay knows and what he needs to learn. i have the George hickox first year dvd.but he is 2 years old. and i dont know where to begin with this dog. and i would like to field trail him but it is expensive. is there any other tests or something i could do with him?

i am not in any hurry or trying to rush him but i would think at least with here it would be going a little faster than this

and on the come command i was out there and he would not come to me but if i put him on the cc he will listen or if i put the e-collar on him he will listen to me but with out that he just blows me off. do you a reason with out seeing the dog he would be doing this?

jay: knows - staunch on point,gun broke, condition to here, collar broke

needs to learn - stand walking birds, stand bad flying birds, whoa, steady to wing and shot, handle, whistle train.retrieve,steady to flush,turn

[ezzy333]

All I get from your post is you are frustrated with the dog but I have no idea why. The only problem I hear is he won't come when called and that just takes more time and repetions with a CC or a Collar. But that is normal for a young dog. I am sure there are other things he needs to learn but that is true with all dogs also. It sounds to me thAt you just need to take some time but work on the areas that you want as often as possible. Know this isn't much help but you just need some patience, consistantcy, and repetions if you want to see the pup develop.

Ezzy

[Saltriver]

I am a little confused. are you using "here" or "come"? it does not matter which but it should be one or the other and stick with it. I do not advise EVER turning him loose without a collar unless and until you drop him in a field trial or hunt test. every time you say a command and he has the opportunity to ignore it or not comply and you cannot get a correction in he learns that it is optional and he will test it when ever he feels like it. he will ask himself "does he mean it this time?"he needs to get to the point that even with the collar on you are rarely if ever needing to use it. I also advocate "over training" if you are going to compete with him or test him. Train at a higher level then you will compete since in the new environment of a test or a trial there will present new distractions and no ability to correct. also to limit this you need to put him in as close of a situation that you can to mimic what you will be experiencing at these events. at 2 yrs he should be ready to finish up. i would focus on here and handling until you get that down pat. it does not matter if he is steady on birds if you can't handle him in the field. also. when he learns that he must listen to you, it will make it easier to break him on birds. be patient and work on one thing until it is perfect, then move to another. every training session should be a very small step building on the last session and preparing him for the next.
Justin

[wems2371]

Are you just starting training at 2 years old, or has he been worked from pup on up? Have you always owned him or is he new in your household, so to speak?

I don't use an e-collar, but I often hear on this forum and elsewhere, about collarwise dogs. Maybe that is what you have. Others more knowledgeable can post their thoughts on that.

I don't trial, but have done a few hunt tests and have been doing NAVHDA work. I don't know if either of those would interest you. Hunt tests are about testing and getting a dog to a broke level. There are Junior Hunter, Senior Hunter, and Master Hunter that cover a dog in just about every stage of training. These are tests that you have to take and pass a few times to get the AKC title of JH, SH, or MH. Tests are like $35 each time, and you can google AKCs site to learn about pointing dog hunt tests. You can test in NAVHDA or just participate in the training days. If you have a chapter near you, training days are a very valuable hands on resource. NAVHDA testing does involve some water/duck work, but there's no reason on the planet that an EP can't do that. Same goal there, with different test levels. Cost per test is around $100, but you only have to take/pass the test 1x to get the title.

[bobman]

the dog sounds normal there is a reason they call it the terrible twos its the peak time they will try to disobey

from all your posts I would suggest you consider buying fully trained dogs and having the trainer teach you how to handle them.

If training dogs frustrates you maybe its just not your thing

I buy trained horses for this reason I'm just not cut out to train horses so dont take this post as a slam, its not.

I'm just trying to point out that some folks are good at certain things and not so good at others

[Sharon]

Now I'm confused sir.
Is this the same dog you posted a thread asking for creeping help , and another one about conditioning to the gun and another one asking how much you could sell the dog for and another one saying you were going to get a pointing lab instead? I'm just confused.

[sjkennels]

sharon - gun conditioning was about bella my gsp. and how much could i sell this dog for. is jay my EP so i could get a pup. but i decided to stay with it. and see how well it goes. i'm not the type to just give up on a dog. and yes i was thinking about getting rid of my shortney to get a pointing lab.

bobman - i don't wanna buy a fully train dog. i like training dogs. i just never started with one that was two years old. i have always had a pup. and when i start with a pup i can train a dog to do just about anything. but that is from starting from scratch. i shouldn't have used frustrated i should have used annoyed because he was listening find and then one day he decided he didn't have to listen to me.

wems2371 - i got jay my EP about 3 months ago. so yes he is new to my house. and i don't like using and e-collar. but right now i have to use that. or a check cord with this dog. so now i have to start from where he left off and that was at here and he said he was whoa trained witch i will give him that because he will stop when i say whoa but i am in the processes of steading him up witch is coming along pretty good

saltriver - i am using come. i have learned my lesson about running my dogs with out an e-collar. and now i don't let them out with out of the kennel without it on.

ezzy333 - i was just asking how you guys would deal with the come command. but besides that what i was asking is the stuff i said that he needed to learn. of course after i get the here command down pat. what would you guys do first. and how would you go about it. and since i got the first year dvd. at what point would i start to use that dvd. on jay. and where would i start like i said i am use to starting with a pup. not a 2 year old dog.

and at when i get done with the dog i want him to be. here broke, whoa broke, handling, turn on command,steady to wing shot and fall, whistle trained, retrieving.

so basically. for those of you that have the dvd George Hickox first year. or have seen it. from what you have read. where at in the dvd should i start training from?

sorry if i have caused any confusion with anyone. and sorry i have a lot of questions with this dog. like i said im not use to starting with a 2 year old dog. maybe i am making it bigger problem than it really is. i just want to know what everyone else thinks. and what they would do in the situation.

[birddogger]

I would start from the beginnig like I would start a pup. JMO

Charlie

[sjkennels]

but they have clicker training and walking in and out of the dog box and walking along a beam and standing on a board i don't think he would just walk on all of that stuff like a pup would

[tommyboy72]

You could always try running him into the ground before you start your training sessions. What I mean is take him out and run him till his tongue is dragging and then begin with the training session. It has been my experience with pointers that seem to be headstrong as this one is that a tired dog seems to respond better to training. A fresh pointer just wants to run and hunt. My pointers will many times bump birds by overrunning their noses at the beginning of a day of hunting but after about 30 mins. to an hour into the day they calm down and begin slamming points like they know how to. Try exercising the heck out of him and then begin commands. JMO

[ezzy333]

You have a two year old pup so you start at the beginning and move to the next step when the dog is ready. There is no set time to start or to move to the next step so only you can tell when it's time.

Ezzy

[Ruffshooter]

SjK
Your dog will respond to the begining training just like in the video. Follow it step by step, if you have problems call George, maybe He will get back to you. Another thing he has many seminars for his training methods, go to one well worth the money.

I don't mean this in a derogitory manner but:
I do not think you have the tools to train that many dogs for the different thing you want to do, to the level you want. Nor do I think you have the patience.
Not knowing just saying, I personally think you have too many irons in the fire.

A George Hickox seminar is the way you should go. I know $1,200 or $900 what ever it is now, is steep . But well worth it. All will become clear, problems that arise will have imediate solutions, other dogs will have issues, other handlers will have issues. George will make you understand how a dog thinks and learns. I took his 5 day seminar, 10 years ago.

This dog is not too old, I have one my self in the same boat. You start the same as a pup. Follow the gossple and believe.

Rick

[sjkennels]

i have the patience. i know i have asked a lot of questions. and i am sorry about that. and if i confused you guys at all im sorry. i am pretty sure i have all the tools to get a dog trained. and if i still need to buy something i will. or learn something i will do that to. and i have a few people that know what they are doing helping me out. i just wanted to see what you guys thought about my sitiation. with the my dogs. and i wish it was that cheap to go to one of his schools. it is any where between 4500 to 6500 dollars. and i cant swing that right now.

[Sharon]

Keep an eye out for a Rick Smith ( Huntsmith Seminar). $400 . for a 2.5 day seminar ("Foundations") and worth every penny.( You take your dog with you.) I learned a LOT.

[sjkennels]

ok thank you sharon i will

[Ruffshooter]

Hickox training clinic seminars.
The five day seminar with the dog and you is $1,295.00
Four day is $995.
it makes sense to stick with one system. Not jump around and confuse you and your dogs.

The advance training? hunts are 7 or more days and up $3195, $2,895.

[sjkennels]

i have no idea where you are getting those prices at because its no on his website .

[Ruffshooter]

It is on his website and I have been.

[Sharon]

And the answer is:

http://www.georgehickox.com/george_hick ... hools.html

[sjkennels]

ok thank you i been going to the private clinic and schools page not the the training school page but once i get the money i will go to one of those schools thanks for the info