How to increase retreiving drive?

[surferdave]

My 7 month old lab has TONS of drive when it comes to birds, but when retrieving bumpers, it's not a full sprint, jump up trying to get them, type of deal. He always gets them for me, but I just don't see the drive. He is purebred, but does not come from a hunting line. I plan on FF'ing him pretty soon, but are there natural ways of increasing retrieving drive?

[crackerd]

You may be ascribing too much to the wonders of force fetch--it's not going to put something in the dog, naturally or unnaturally, that's not already there.

Sounds like you've got a dog that will pick up your ducks and/or pheasants and dove, and if you're a hunter, what more can you ask?

If the dog goes hard for birds, be happy about it. What would you do with "more drive," anyhow? If you plan on running hunt tests, train with birds as often as you can instead of bumpers, and you'll get the drive you want.

You may still want to put the dog through force fetch, and if so, now's the time for it. Be let's be clear: Force fetching for retrievers is about instilling a foundation for handling, as in imposing your will in the dog--not instilling drive in them. That ain't meant to be the intent.

MG

[A/C Guy]

Our Britts are the same way, they chase and retrieve shot birds like their life depends on it. But they do not care for bumpers.

I'm content that they never fail on the real things.

[AzDoggin]

bumpers are BORING for the dog. No action. They just lay there.

Birds are EXCITING. The book I was reading the other day talked about using tennis balls because they bounce around, roll, and simulate prey.

Unfortunately, I've also read (Ed Frawley - Leerburg.com) that the glue in tennis balls is bad for dog teeth, so I guess maybe they shouldn't be used too, too much.

Maybe get some canvas bumpers and use different scents on them?? Just thinking something to add variety and excitement. Also, vary the place where you train. Never throw the whatever from the same spot.

Maybe alternate in a frozen bird every now and then, or even a fresh killed bird??

Also, maybe shorter training sessions with fewer reps. Always leave the dog wanting more. Make it a big deal, throw a few excitedly, and call it good before it gets old. You could add more sessions, but keep 'em short.

Funny how every dog is different. My son has a young Border Collie that is so crazy to retreive that he's given up treats and uses a retrieve as a reward for her performing other things.

[daniel77]

I'd say that following the slow and steady methods many other training areas use to make dogs "ball crazy" would be the way to go. Set things up so that the retrieve is the reward. Also, make "bleep" sure that the training session ends with the dog wanting more. If you want a dummy with more life, try a Kong. They will do some pretty neat bounces once they hit that just may entice your dog a bit more, but remember, stop sooner than they want to. Completely agree with the comments on force fetching. May sharpen your dog up a bit, but it sure won't make things more fun (at first for sure). Good luck.

[surferdave]

I guess I should be happy my dog is bringing back birds to hand, and holding until commanded to drop. And in the 3 months I've worked with him, he hasn't killed a clipped wing yet. He runs at about 70% when steadied, and 90% on "fun bumper" retrieves. I guess for training purposes, I love seeing that 100% sprint for bumpers the same way he is for birds, I like it when dogs are difficult to steady because they want the retrieve so bad. They just seem more focus and less likely to be distracted while on the job. Thanks for the advice, and I'll try to keep sessions short and him interested. I'll be taking him on his first hunt in a couple weeks, so it'll be nice to see how he performs on real game birds.

[AzDoggin]

Dave, most folks would be very proud to have a young pup doing what yours is doing. I think it sounds like you are doing great with him. Maybe your only danger is burning the young pup out with too much formal training too early. If you want drive, it has to be FUN, FUN, FUN. Your "more focus, less distracted" comment - adult dogs can show that, pups are still learning HOW to focus.

I found this forum just now - Dockdogs.com. Those folks are all about drive in retrievers. It's a pretty active forum - may be some new info for you there as well. This could be a fun off-season diversion for you and pup...http://www.dockdogs.com/index.php?optio ... board=10.0

Here's a thread on "Toy drive" which is sortof what you are after: http://www.dockdogs.com/index.php?optio ... ic=21007.0

Ever watch one of those competitions in which the dogs (mostly labs) are LEAPING off the dock to get the bumper? I'd say those dudes have DRIVE

(part of the dilemma is the conflict between the calm before the retrieve (sit/stay in blind???), and the desire for a "high drive" retreive. The two almost compete with one another. Sounds like these dockdogs folks are getting pup all revved up prior to chucking the bumper. That's not as practical with a hunting dog - but who knows - at least some new stuff to consider)

Here's an example of what some of the dockdogs folks are doing:

RetrieverLuvr gave you some great suggestions!
Building toy drive is not so much about obedience as it is about pulling that raw chase instinct out. I have a small dog who naturally had very little toy drive..I put a lot of work in to get where she is today (tennis ball/Frisbee obsessed). In order to build that drive the dog needs to be enjoying it. In the video it seems more like he's performing a task rather than having fun and building drive is all about getting the dog into it. Be obnoxious, clapping even patting the dog ruffly on its back to get it revved up, anything that gets your dog excited. I myself am only in the initial stages of training specifically for dock dogs so I -always- bring a hotdog with me during training (treating when I see focus on the toy)..
Another thing I like to do is put the dog in a stay or wait, set the toy up a couple feet in front of the dog and then go behind the dog have it focus on the toy while clapping and generally getting the dog excited so when you release the dog will directs all of that energy straight onto the toy. Lots of praise when the dog shows the energy your looking for.

On one of the threads, there was a pic of a retrieving bumper stuck up in a tree where the dog could see it, but could not reach it. Built drive to get after it, (sort of like flocks of geese flying overhead, I guess).


Take care.

[Birddogz]

My Britts don't give a darn for bumpers. They will retrieve birds all day. All the Britts I have owned retrieved the same way, fast to the bird, prance on the way back. My DD retrieves 100mph there and back. Once she was FFed she became a retrieving machine. What I like about FFing is that it becomes a command that you can reinforce with the collar. There is no refusing a tough retrieve in icy waters, etc. My DD retrieved well before she was FFed, but now it is like she is possessed. WHat I like about FFing is that the dog will fetch bumpers, allowing you to exercise the dog easily. I can take my DD down to the lake and throw the dummy 10 times, and give her a nice workout in the heat of summer.

[texscala]

My dog was not a strong retriever and then I FFd her. Now she retrieves birds to hand and if she finds a bumper will bring it to you until your arm feels like to you until your arm feels like it is going to fall off. Not sure why it happened that way but she just loves to retrieve now. My wife hates taking her with us to the lake because all the dog want to do is have you throw the bumper so she can go swim and get it.

Look at the video and see how much she loves to retrieve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOk2nTrd1oA

[surferdave]

Good stuff. I'll probably FF him this summer when there is more light in the evenings and I'll have more time. I've heard that done properly the dog should run stronger with more confidence. Still, he goes after birds HARD, so I'm definitely proud of him.