Pup Pointin Launcher?

[jimbo&rooster]

Ok... so I have been using pigeons and a luncher to help get my 9mo GSP pointing, I have been getting good results with good solid points (holds for 25-30sec). however, the other day I dumped him out on a pair of quail that I saw running across the road and he just went right in and ripped them. I have talked about the situation with a trainer who is helping me, but while just running the pup today to burn energy I was thinking, is it possible that he is pointing the launcher? smell me on the launcher? Not enough experience with quail yet? Just curious, ive only been using pigeons and launchers for a couple of weeks one or two pigeons per session 3-4 days per week. At this point im not terribly worried, Im just curious what others experiences have been.
Jim

[Chukar12]

If he saw the birds first and you just dumped him out of the truck ... and being 9 mos old I would have bet pretty heavily he would do just as you described. Even if he didnt see them it takes some time and experience with different game birds for a pup to understand and assimilate to them. It isnt a worry at all. I personally however am not a fan of dumping the dog right out of the truck on spotted birds...I have seen dogs that start creeping around the minute you drop the gate from too much of it, and begin to pattern themselves as though there are birds under foot. I would take the dog away and circle back making them search for the birds.

[jimbo&rooster]

Yeah. This is not somthing I make a habit of just one of those brain farts that happens. As - cut him loose I thought about the pinch collar and check cord next to the box. When I was running him today it just gave me time to think back over it and I just had a feqwq questions I wanted to ask
Jim

[RayGubernat]

Jim -

9 mos. old is pretty young. I geerally do not put my dog on too awful many birds until the dog shows me, in the yard that it is ready to be broke.

That being said, I can vividly remember a pointer that I had who was older, with considerable numbers of birds killed over his staunch points. I was trying to get him steady to wing and shot so i could compete with him. I put him into the training field one day and he went right up to the bush where I put the trap about four out of the last five times. He established the most gorgeous point you could imagine. The only fly in the ointment was that the trap was at the other end of the field!!

Fortunately I had a couple of pigeons in my bag and tossed one when I made the flushing attempt. I could see that he was surprised, but he stood. So i flushed some more and tossed the other one.

we really need to be careful exactly what we are teaching our dogs. Sometimes we think we are teaching them one thing, but they are learning something a little different.

I sugest you back off on the bird work a bit and do some more yardwork. If the dog is standing for 25 - 30 seconds, it is close, but if it is still jumping in, it ain't quite there just yet. No harm in taking a puppy off birds for a week or two to allow it time to get its mind right.

Patience and persistence. It will happen. November is a loooong way off.

RayG

[Windyhills]

Assuming these were wild birds you let the dog out of the truck to go after, I wonder if it isn't a simpler explanation of wild birds that just wouldn't stand crowding and him being used to moving close to planted birds with no problems.

Nothing wrong with holding off birds for awhile but I might ask how you are working the birds in the launchers. Are you tripping the launcher as soon as the dog shows signs of making scent but doesn't stop, or are you are allowing it to make scent and then keep moving closer before establishing point?

[jimbo&rooster]

Assuming these were wild birds you let the dog out of the truck to go after, I wonder if it isn't a simpler explanation of wild birds that just wouldn't stand crowding and him being used to moving close to planted birds with no problems.

Nothing wrong with holding off birds for awhile but I might ask how you are working the birds in the launchers. Are you tripping the launcher as soon as the dog shows signs of making scent but doesn't stop, or are you are allowing it to make scent and then keep moving closer before establishing point?

Basically I plant the birds and then bring the pup in on a CC so that I come in cross wind of the launcher. If he doesnt go on point I take him past the launcher and bring him back by at a different angle incase the wind is funny at ground level. so far I have not had him not go on point when i have been working with him. So essentially once he does go on point I let him point, once he make a move towards the bird i blow the launcher. I am following the guidance of a gentleman who uses the west method and like the way he does things so I dont use whoa with him in the field.

As far as the quail he busted they were wild birds and Im ssure that being used to getting close to planted bbirds is part of the problem but he is young and I am convinced that this fall he will get plenty of wild bird exposure and will start to figure things out. if not then ill have my hands full next spring . I have been using the launchers and wild birds because I was having trouble with him crowding, or just flat just ripping wild birds when he wa out running. by slowing him down using the check cord he is actually starting to figure things out.
Jim

[Tall Boy]

He's alright, don't worry about it too much. Dogs know the difference between a planted pigeon, a planted pigeon in a trap, and quail with now human/artificial scent. A 9mos old dog seeing/smelling wild birds and busting them just tells me he's worth something and will probably turn into a real nice dog. My dad always said "Any dog worth it's salt will knock and chase a bird every once and a while, no matter how broke".

[jimbo&rooster]

well its gotten into the 70s for the last few evenings, so ive been able to get the pup out and free run him a little. Last night we got into a covy of birds while we were out running and he slammed into point for a few seconds. when the birds busted he stopped to flush. well on the way out he was running in some thick cover and I heard the tome on his collar change to point for a 5-6 beeps before I heard the thunder of wings as a single got up. I think that he is starting to figure things out and I was worried for nothing. I think with plenty of exposure he should come around this fall and be ready for some seriouse work this fall.
JIm