training dvd

sjkennels · Post by **sjkennels** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:28 am

ferrel miller common sense bird dog training dvd any good? does it show you how to do everything in steps and does it use pups or already broke dogs?

what other good training dvds are there that shows how to do stuff in steps and that actually use the pups and not broke dogs?

thanks in advance for your suggestions.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:53 am

I have not seen that video.

The one I'll use is Perfect Start from Perfection Kennels. It is very well done IMO, and the dogs are green, green, green, including some with iffy temperaments. Here's a linky: http://www.perfectionkennel.com/video_series.htm

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:54 am

sjkennels wrote:ferrel miller common sense bird dog training dvd any good?

It's a great video.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:23 am

Ron R wrote:
sjkennels wrote:ferrel miller common sense bird dog training dvd any good?
It's a great video.

At less than half the cost of the Perfect Start video, it has to be worth trying, that's for sure.

ymepointer · Post by **ymepointer** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:27 am

It is a good one but in some resepcts unconventional...Ferrel has his own way of doing it and it obviously works with his strain of pointers. I would suggest getting it.

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Tue May 24, 2011 6:53 am

Does anyone have Ferrel's DVD they would like to part with? If so shoot me a PM...

ben33127 · Post by **ben33127** » Tue May 24, 2011 9:02 am

I have it I would have to dig up.....But I will say it did not help me at all, I sure it is informational to some, just did not do it for me! Feel like it skimmed too much!

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Tue May 24, 2011 9:15 am

I loved it but would not recommend it as a training video. I think it was more of a brief overview of the way Ferrell does things rather than a step by step training aid. Still an excellent video though.

Was not real crazy about Perfect Start\Perfect Finish either. I bought it to see what all the hubub was about. If you have no clue how to start and train a dog then PS\PF would be for you but if you already have your own methods it is probably not going to make you change your tactics. Many of the training methods they show are nothing that is partcularly inventive or innovative just old methods using repetition, repetition, repetition. And they advise using patience, patience and more patience.

I still enjoy my video Gundog with Charles T. Jurney. Don't know why I just liked it and still do. Just my personal opinion though.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue May 24, 2011 7:13 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:I loved it but would not recommend it as a training video. I think it was more of a brief overview of the way Ferrell does things rather than a step by step training aid. Still an excellent video though.

Was not real crazy about Perfect Start\Perfect Finish either. I bought it to see what all the hubub was about. If you have no clue how to start and train a dog then PS\PF would be for you but if you already have your own methods it is probably not going to make you change your tactics. Many of the training methods they show are nothing that is partcularly inventive or innovative just old methods using repetition, repetition, repetition. And they advise using patience, patience and more patience.

I still enjoy my video Gundog with Charles T. Jurney. Don't know why I just liked it and still do. Just my personal opinion though.

Yeah, I once bought the perfect start for the same reason as you, I just wanted to see what it was all about. I was disappointed, especially for the price. I am not knocking the video for a total beginner, but as you say, that is all it would be good for IMO. At least it taught me to not buy the perfect finish. Like I said, I don't want to discourage anyone from getting them, but they are not for people that have experience. JMO. Sometimes my curiosity gets the best of me and it costs me.

Charlie

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Tue May 24, 2011 8:59 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:I loved it but would not recommend it as a training video.

You are wrong. It is a great video that sets a person up for success through simple methods that are easy to understand......hense (common sense). Tommy, let me know when you whoa break your first dog.

Training a birddog is not as hard as some make it out to be.

i

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Tue May 24, 2011 9:07 pm

I will add that perfect start is a joke........WHAT A RACKET...UNBELIEVABLE.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Tue May 24, 2011 11:27 pm

birddogger wrote: At least it taught me to not buy the perfect finish.

FUNNY

....Because it's true.

Retiredbirddogman · Post by **Retiredbirddogman** » Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 am

I like the George Hickox training videos. Just one opinion.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed May 25, 2011 11:33 am

Ron I don't make training dogs out to be difficult. You guys who make money off doing if for other people do. And just for giggles I am "whoa" breaking my Reb dog now, just to see what the heck everyone is ooohhhing and aaaahhhing about over "whoa" breaking a dog. A dog that has been hunted and had sufficient contact with wild birds should not need to be "whoa" broke. Instinct and breeding should take over. Smell the bird, find the bird, point the bird and stay on point till it is flushed. Simple. I will let you know when I am done with him. Maybe you and Charlie can make it back out here this year and we can see how your dog stacks up against Annie again. I hope better than the last time you came out.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Wed May 25, 2011 12:26 pm

tommyboy72 wrote: we can see how your dog stacks up against Annie again.

If you had annie whoa broke you could stop her from stealing points rather than just call her to you when another dog is on point....Remember. There was one time when I said whoa and my dog and Charlie's dog came to a skidding stop and you stated that you wish your dogs would do that.

tommyboy72 wrote:Maybe you and Charlie can make it back out here this year and we can see how your dog stacks up against Annie again. I hope better than the last time you came out.

In all fareness my Coop dog had the most luck of every dog we hunted.

Charlie and I would love to meet back up with you and do some more hunting together. You are a great host and a heck of a guy and if you need any help/advice let me know

.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed May 25, 2011 12:48 pm

I appreciate the offer and Annie has gotten a lot better at backing and I am considering "whoa" breaking her because we are supposed to have about 3 trials out here this year on the public land I took you guys on and I would like to enter some of my dogs and see how they do. In my memory Annie had more luck than any of the dogs but I guess that is best left to another day.

I am considering a trip up to western Kansas this year as well if you guys are interested and you guys are always welcome here. I would like to go up to Morton county which is only about 40 miles or so and attempt to hunt pheasant, quail and prairie chicken.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Wed May 25, 2011 12:56 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:I am considering a trip up to western Kansas this year as well if you guys are interested and you guys are always welcome here.

Thanks, we really appreciate it. Man was we hunting some tough conditions that year. Ice storm, blizzard, and one degree and I'm not even counting the wind.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed May 25, 2011 6:19 pm

It was horrible that year and a few weeks after you guys left that year I hunted some 30 below 0 with the windchill temps. with a couple of brothers who came down here from eastern Oklahoma and up from south Texas. Miserable. I wish I could get people to come down in early December or November to hunt. The weather ranges from 50-75 degrees and with little wind. Just right if you ask me.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Wed May 25, 2011 9:35 pm

Tom, just remember the whoa command is just an obedience command. I saved my dog, Lucky's life on two different occasions with it.

Charlie

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Wed May 25, 2011 10:24 pm

we can see how your dog stacks up against Annie again. I hope better than the last time you came out.

I will have to pay closer attention next time. You must have seen something I didn't.

Charlie

Trainer8307 · Post by **Trainer8307** » Thu May 26, 2011 4:23 am

If I get one meaningful idea that makes the training process better from a video then I consider it worthwhile. My training routine is a combination of ideas I have picked up over the years from working with other trainers, a few videos and going to some seminars. I have some videos I looked at one time and knew they were a waste of money. Others were viewed often if there was a particular idea I related to I would watch it until it became instinctive. The Miller video did provide some meaningful ideas that I use on a regular basis but I do agree it is an overview. One downfall on all videos is they have to be short and inadequate time is provided to each segment. A persons approach to training needs to be developed with ideas they relate with. During training sessions it is important to rely on what you instinctively think in order to deal with a split second decision rather what would so and so do.

As for whoa breaking, there are times being able to stop your dog and hold it in place is very beneficial during hunting and trials. For me, whoa has a couple of meanings and a dog smart enough to do what he needs to knows when each one applies. I use it to remain perfectly in place around game or to stay with me if not around game. If you have a brace mate out of pocket being able to sit on your horse with your dog nearby and ready for further instruction is very helpful. In field trials I have been able to hold my dog close while the judges caught up so I could release him for a showy cast they would not have seen. During training session, where each man is dealing with his own dog being able to release the dog but him stand while I mount my horse beats wondering where he went when I couldn't see him. The irony of this paragraph is I don't formally whoa break them like so many people do but that's another story. Good luck!!

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu May 26, 2011 3:59 pm

Thanks Charlie and next time I will bring along a sports counter to keep tabs.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu May 26, 2011 4:23 pm

please see the above comments from seemingly experienced and top notch dog men to understand the importance and significance of testing and judging to detrmine the ability of dogs on a broad scale

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Thu May 26, 2011 5:52 pm

please see the above comments from seemingly experienced and top notch dog men to understand the importance and significance of testing and judging to detrmine the ability of dogs on a broad scale

you mean opinions vs. standards. gotcha

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Thu May 26, 2011 8:23 pm

Well, I guess I'm just slow and part of the "racket". But when I purchased the ps/pf I realized at the time the target audience was beginners, as I did with Sherry Ray Ebert, George Hickox, Ferrel Miller and many other videos. I just try to take the best from each. No doubt some are better than others, but, imo, for a beginner, none better than the ps/pf. When I find the"Training Bird Dogs for the Guy with Ten Pointers or the Guy that's had Bird Dog's for 35 years and Hunted and Trialed" video, I'll buy a couple of them and have my own raffle and send them to a couple of folks that have participated in this thread. (Hope someone out there appreciates "dry" humor"). I think one of the 6 month old pups used in the ps became the youngest DC in the history of the breed (GSP), atleast at one time...all jmo

kylemac · Post by **kylemac** » Thu May 26, 2011 8:29 pm

Trainer8307 wrote:If I get one meaningful idea that makes the training process better from a video then I consider it worthwhile.

I agree completely. There is always room to learn or just see another method that works. I would guess most folks use a compilation of learned techniques and every little bit helps to give you different options. I find most videos I have seen all had something worth at least considering to add to the tool box - the same for books. Hands on is the best, of course, but book (and video) learnin's has its place too.

I have not seen Miller's videos -- but I enjoyed one of Hickox's older vids, Perfect Start, and I especially enjoyed the simplicity of a filmed seminar by Bill West and Bill Gibbons I recently watched. They've all done it thousands more times than I have.

I was considering taking a look at the videos by Dave Walker -- anyone have an opinion on his videos

Thanks.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu May 26, 2011 8:40 pm

Trainer8307, that was a very good post and I totally agree with everythig said.

Charlie

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu May 26, 2011 8:43 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:Thanks Charlie and next time I will bring along a sports counter to keep tabs.

OK Tom, but we will have to have better weather and more bird contacts for it to work.

It will be something new to me though because I have never tried to keep track while hunting.

Charlie

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu May 26, 2011 8:50 pm

bossman wrote:Well, I guess I'm just slow and part of the "racket". But when I purchased the ps/pf I realized at the time the target audience was beginners, as I did with Sherry Ray Ebert, George Hickox, Ferrel Miller and many other videos. I just try to take the best from each. No doubt some are better than others, but, imo, for a beginner, none better than the ps/pf. When I find the"Training Bird Dogs for the Guy with Ten Pointers or the Guy that's had Bird Dog's for 35 years and Hunted and Trialed" video, I'll buy a couple of them and have my own raffle and send them to a couple of folks that have participated in this thread. (Hope someone out there appreciates "dry" humor"). I think one of the 6 month old pups used in the ps became the youngest DC in the history of the breed (GSP), atleast at one time...all jmo

You are correct and I didn't mean to knock the usefulness of the videos. I probably used a poor choice of words but I was just kicking myself for spending money because of curiosity. There is nothing wrong with the perfect start/finish dvds for what they were intended and I am always looking to learn more and/or find better and easier ways of doing things. Hope this clears it up.

Charlie

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Fri May 27, 2011 8:18 am

bossman wrote:Well, I guess I'm just slow and part of the "racket". But when I purchased the ps/pf I realized at the time the target audience was beginners, as I did with Sherry Ray Ebert, George Hickox, Ferrel Miller and many other videos. I just try to take the best from each. No doubt some are better than others, but, imo, for a beginner, none better than the ps/pf. When I find the"Training Bird Dogs for the Guy with Ten Pointers or the Guy that's had Bird Dog's for 35 years and Hunted and Trialed" video, I'll buy a couple of them and have my own raffle and send them to a couple of folks that have participated in this thread.

You are 100% right, I'm a jerk

.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Fri May 27, 2011 9:54 am

Ron R wrote:
bossman wrote:Well, I guess I'm just slow and part of the "racket". But when I purchased the ps/pf I realized at the time the target audience was beginners, as I did with Sherry Ray Ebert, George Hickox, Ferrel Miller and many other videos. I just try to take the best from each. No doubt some are better than others, but, imo, for a beginner, none better than the ps/pf. When I find the"Training Bird Dogs for the Guy with Ten Pointers or the Guy that's had Bird Dog's for 35 years and Hunted and Trialed" video, I'll buy a couple of them and have my own raffle and send them to a couple of folks that have participated in this thread.
You are 100% right, I'm a jerk .

gitrdonebritts Likes this post

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Fri May 27, 2011 10:29 am

You are 100% right, I'm a jerk .

Chukar12 likes this post as well...

Ron, they started their whole"bald guy" club...let's start our own "jerk" posting club.

You know, I agree that there is something to be learned from all trainers and the dvd's mentioned here and if memory serves I own each of them. I am being honest when I say what I do not like about Perfection is the advertising...I was suspect about the methodology because it openly cracks on tried and true systems from Smith, Hickox, et al. Rather than in my opinion the more appropriate and effective salesmenship of benefits based on its own merits.

Why anyone cares about this? I really don't know.

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Fri May 27, 2011 7:06 pm

Ron R...Anyone with your knowledge and obviously great looking dog's (based on your avatar) is no jerk. I think we all can be emotional when we talk about our dogs and the methods we use to train them. The reason I hope someone will always "care" is that we are dealing with peoples reputations. I really see no difference in the way Perfection promotes their dvd and seminars and the methods used by the Smith's or Hickox. Pick up any gun dog related magazine and you are going to see their ads. All of these trainers seem to be good people and have made a tremendous contributions to the sport (I do not know Hickox personally, but have known Rick Smith for 35 years and Jon Hann for several). I don't think the "command lead" was a "tried and true" system when Rick introduced it, but hundreds if not thousands of people have used it with great success. Improvements can always be made in training. Just don't rip somebody to shreds because they advertise. If thats the case we all need to stop drinking Cokes or going to McDonalds. Sorry if I sound like I'm on a 'soap box". I appreciate everyone on this board. I just hope someone always cares.. Just pick the method of training that's best for you. I apologize to anyone or everyone if I need to. As always..jmo...

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Fri May 27, 2011 10:24 pm

bossman wrote:Well, I guess I'm just slow and part of the "racket". But when I purchased the ps/pf I realized at the time the target audience was beginners, as I did with Sherry Ray Ebert, George Hickox, Ferrel Miller and many other videos. I just try to take the best from each. No doubt some are better than others, but, imo, for a beginner, none better than the ps/pf. When I find the"Training Bird Dogs for the Guy with Ten Pointers or the Guy that's had Bird Dog's for 35 years and Hunted and Trialed" video, I'll buy a couple of them and have my own raffle and send them to a couple of folks that have participated in this thread. (Hope someone out there appreciates "dry" humor"). I think one of the 6 month old pups used in the ps became the youngest DC in the history of the breed (GSP), atleast at one time...all jmo

I guess that all of the books and videos are targeted toward beginners but some are more informative than others. For example, I think that Evan Graham's Smart Fetch can benefit trainers at any stage from beginners to the experienced and I am sure there are others. JMO also.

Charlie

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Fri May 27, 2011 10:28 pm

The reason I hope someone will always "care" is that we are dealing with peoples reputations.

bossman, you are right and I am usually more careful when dealing with somebody's reputation.

Charlie

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