Gunnervous Brittany

[Soldaat]

My 2 year old Britt hunts hard and is reasonably steady on point. He is however not happy hearing a gunshot(used a capgun twice and then stopped)other loud noices or seeing a gun doesnt bother him at all.I tried George Hickox, Maurice Lindley and Gonehuntin's methods using pigeons as a distraction and ran into another problem. He wants nothing to do with pigeons, he will walk upto them give the pigeon a lick or two and then turn away. Unfortunately he is not a strong natural retriever so unless i FF him first i dont see how retrieving can be used as a training aid.


Any advice or idea's will be greatly appreciated, Britts are nor easy to come by in S.A so I would love to get it right with this one.
Frans

[gonehuntin']

First, is he from proven Brittany blood lines?

Will he chase a bird?

[AzDoggin]

I would stop with the gun training and concentrate on increasing his bird drive first. Once he's gaggah over birds, then slowly and from great distance re-introduce the cap gun only when a bird is around. Bang = birds is what you want his association to be.

If he's not bird-crazy yet, there is no reason to shoot around him IMO.

[kninebirddog]

I would stop with the gun training and concentrate on increasing his bird drive first. Once he's gaggah over birds, then slowly and from great distance re-introduce the cap gun only when a bird is around. Bang = birds is what you want his association to be.

If he's not bird-crazy yet, there is no reason to shoot around him IMO.

Ditto ...



Pretty much If the dog is not excited about the bird then you have a problem as no drive for the bird then you are trying to steer a parked car.
So unless that dog is so focused on the bird in full chase over and over and over do not intro the gun again the dog is at such point where when you go get the bird that dog is getting excited.
I would also be curious as to if Both the dam and sire to your dog are both good hunting dogs at minimum..the papers can give a bit about the back ground breeding but if both parents do not have desire for birds being the cake and the ped only being Icing...I can't begin to tell you how many dogs I have seen over the years where a person boasted "double bandee bred with beans blaze" where yes those dogs were in the pedigree about 3 plus generations back and the dam was a pork barrel with legs and the sire was a decent hunting dog and the pups we have had come here for training are very low on bird and field drive/desire

And FF this will not help as the dog has to want to find the bird first.

[ezzy333]

In over 50 years I have seen only one brit that wouldn't hunt. YOu can't breed a inherited trait out of them any faster than you can breed it in. Would be interesting to see the pedigree but more important to see how the prents were used and how they performed. Some dogs have a lot less desire than others just like Knine said but what you need to do is try to work on building up the desire and then go to the next step after you have done that put the gun away and forget the retrieving and just work on finding birds and make it fun.

Ezzy

[helpful_cub]

Try playing with a wing on a fish pole and see if you can get the dog excited by chasing it around. Praise him so he knows that you want him to find that wing. He may want to find it, he just doesn't know what he's stuppose to do with it. You can work on the Woah command. Also try using some wild bird when you hunt him. The first time my dog saw wild birds exploid from cover because he was close got him hooked. Something for him to chase oh the excitement!

[gonehuntin']

If you can't get him crazy over birds and he's gun shy, there probably isn't a lot of reason to keep him. Or, just keep him as a pet.

[Soldaat]

Thank you all for replying.I'll post his pedigree tomorrow(it's in the baby's room and my wife will kill me if i wake him up now ) The dam has placed in quite a few pointer trials and the sire was recently featured in a local national hunting magazine, apparantly a hunting machine.
When we go out in the field he will chase guineafowl the whole day,up to the point where it becomes a problem because he doesnt want to stop.

He hunts hard and points pheasant and partrige but after the flush looks like he loses interest, i've only seen him chase a few. He is mad about guineas and when out with the other dogs(DD's) he is always the one to find them and he chases everytime.They move around in big flocks, sometimes more than 200 and dont sit for the dogs at all.
How can i get him as excited about other birds

Thaks again for all your comments
Frans

[AzDoggin]

You have an easy solution, Soldaat. Organize The First International Guinea Fowl Bird Dog Trial.

Your pup is chasing the birds he thinks you want him to chase, and it sounds like he has some ability too (beating the DD's to the birds). I would bet if you fired off that cap gun while he's chasing guineas and then only, he won't blink an eye. Start at some distance away, and only get closer once he's showing ZERO reaction to the shot. Then work your way up in gunsize/noise/distance. Birds = fun = bang.

Likely he loses interest after the flush because the bird is gone!! Now I see why you are doing gun training - if he weren't gunshy, you'd be killing birds over him, and he'd put it all together.

I'm going to let the others weigh in on where you are with training in general. Alot may depend on what your goals are for the dog - how "finished" you want him to be. He does sound birdy now that you added that new information.

[gonehuntin']

Have you tried PLAYING with the pigeons with him? Throw a clipwing, run to it yourself and toss it in the air again? It's possible he doesn't know what to do with the bird when he catches it. His entire life he's been chasing and not catching birds. He may not know what a bird is, and what he should do with it. Try getting him really excited with tossed clip wings and don't yell at him if, hopefully, he kills a few.

[Soldaat]

You,re right AzDoggin, dont even enter those Guinea Field Trial. I've got that one won Itried posting his pedigree but seems you need a US adress to post there. Hope this helps, his sire is out of Maxwell's White Spirit and Spirithill's Mystic Magic. The dam is an South African breeding i think but the grandparents are out of Flush and Nevene Jill's Brass Flyer,Thorkill Cuttysarkflush and Xita Van't Gillishof.

I'm gonna try playing with him using the pigeon, will it help if i put him on a chain gang with the DD's and then maybe tease them with a pigeon so he can see how excited they get ,or should this be just between me , him and the bird.

Thank you all for taking an interest in our problem.
Frans

[bhulisa]

Hi, where are you in SA? I am in Cape Town, if you are anywhere near here might be able to help. You must have got your dog from Odette?

PM me on the forum, or send me an email on bhulisa@iafrica.com

[Soldaat]

Hallo Bhulisa,yes i got him from Odette. Unfortunately i,m almost on the other side of the country,Heidelberg Gauteng, but i will love to hear what you think. I will send you an e-mail tomorrow. Frans

[AzDoggin]

Hey Soldaat, put 6-8 pigeons in a training bag. Get out in a field away from other distractions, dog on check cord, no other birds around. Take out a pigeon, hold it by the chest/legs and let it flap around until you have your dogs attention, then toss the bird, let it fly off and let the dog watch it. As each bird comes out, he'll get more and more excited. Be careful not to let the bird slap him in the face with a wing. You are just stoking his fires for Mr. Pigeon. It won't take but a session or two like this, and he'll want to tear into them.

good luck.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Frans,
What we usually find with a gun dog like yours is that most times, the dog has an inner ear infection, and is very sensitive to the gun fire noise, the gun noise actually hurts the dogs ears, you might want to have a Vet check him out. Thru the years we have had a half dozen of these infection incidents, in all different dog breeds.
RGD/Dave

[Ruffshooter]

Is it just a plain ole cap gun like a kids toy, or a 22, What is the caliber?

Have you used something like a 4-10 at a long distance away? 100 meters or more and worked in closer over time?

Dave, checking on the dogs ears for infection is prudent, but would not the dog react to other loud noises as well or are you thinking it Is sharpness of the gun that triggers the response and not at the lower frequencies of other sounds. What about the dogs response is similar to what you have experienced?

Thanks
Rick

[Soldaat]

I'll have his ears checked but i doubt whether thats the problem. I think i know where the problem started, as a small pup he lived with my fiance now wife in town. They were playing in the garden and a car backfired three times right in front of them, he ran for cover.
It's a normal toy gun, he tolerates it at about 15meters but not happy. I tried a 20 gauge at 250 meters once and he ran away, but came back when i called him.

The Guineafowl trick backfired on me today. They're very spooky, will take off and fly about a 100 meters,land and run a bit and then take off again. normally i dont allow him to chase them but today left him so i could fire the gun.He chased them and was gone for an hour, at least the shot didnt bother him

Frans

[AzDoggin]

normally i dont allow him to chase them but today left him so i could fire the gun.He chased them and was gone for an hour, at least the shot didnt bother him

Frans

Haha, well there you have it. One problem fixed and another one created. That's the way it goes sometimes, huh?

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Rick,
Good point, many dogs will tolerate noises that are even louder than the shotgun, because the noise is usually in a different frequencey and most times they are father away from the actual noise when it occurs. We had a Boykin one time who tolerated every different loud noise on the farm, but rolled around on the ground after each
time a shotgun fired. The dog had a reoccuring inner ear infection, that effected him badly. He loved to hunt, but he had a big problem with his ear infections.
RGD/Dave

[Ruffshooter]

Thanks Dave:
Rick

[A/C Guy]

How can i get him as excited about other birds

Try feeding him some of the birds that you want him to hunt.
Our dogs go bananas over pheasant and quail because we give them some as a treat. They love all game birds, but when we are grilling quail or pheasant, they go crazy with anticipation. (They actually swiped one whole cooked pheasant off the counter while we were preparing other food.)
Our dogs always hunt harder after opening day because we feed them game bird that evening. It really piques their interest.
A few tastes of the game will change his opinion of the birds.

[AzDoggin]

How can i get him as excited about other birds

Try feeding him some of the birds that you want him to hunt.
Our dogs go bananas over pheasant and quail because we give them some as a treat. They love all game birds, but when we are grilling quail or pheasant, they go crazy with anticipation. (They actually swiped one whole cooked pheasant off the counter while we were preparing other food.)
Our dogs always hunt harder after opening day because we feed them game bird that evening. It really piques their interest.
A few tastes of the game will change his opinion of the birds.

That's a great idea.

A/C, where in the heck are you getting pheasant?

[ezzy333]

How can i get him as excited about other birds

Try feeding him some of the birds that you want him to hunt.
Our dogs go bananas over pheasant and quail because we give them some as a treat. They love all game birds, but when we are grilling quail or pheasant, they go crazy with anticipation. (They actually swiped one whole cooked pheasant off the counter while we were preparing other food.)
Our dogs always hunt harder after opening day because we feed them game bird that evening. It really piques their interest.
A few tastes of the game will change his opinion of the birds.

I want to seee some of those dogs that can tell what a live bird tates like grilled. Thats got to be great. Wonder if they all have their individual picks? bet it makes for some interesting kennel chat between the dogs. Do you find that some like the white meat better than the dark? :roll: