Question for Phil

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri May 19, 2006 1:53 am

Hey Phil I am using your method of teaching Whoa on my pup. It is going good but I cant get him to walk forward on his own. I have to kinda keep pressure and pull him along to get him to come to me.

I have followed your steps but he just doesnt seem to want to come forward.

Any idea on what I can do to get him to walk to me?

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Fri May 19, 2006 7:18 am

Hummmm, thats odd what do you think could be causing that?? Pup wants to whoa, or stop and stand, then it wont walk on....I wonder??????????????

Post by **Ayres** » Fri May 19, 2006 11:29 am

tailcrackin wrote:Hummmm, thats odd what do you think could be causing that?? Pup wants to whoa, or stop and stand, then it wont walk on....I wonder?

Jonesy, it sounds like Ryan is using the woah post with two leashes. He's walking his dog and eyeing the other leash. When it starts to tighten up, he says woah, and the dog stops. So, yes, the dog needs to walk forward with him until he gives the command.

Ryan, it sounds like your pup has become "collar-wise" to your setup. It knows that when the force-collar is put on, it's woah training time and that it doesn't get pinched if it just stands still.

By the way, how old is Diego now?

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri May 19, 2006 11:31 am

Maybe but I am no using a force collar just a plain old rope stlye collar.

He is 5 months now and i swear he has terrier in him

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Fri May 19, 2006 11:54 am

For every action there is a reaction, common reaction, good post ayers. 5 mo. is awful young to be taking away desire, to much to fast and they will always blow up ......somewhere.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri May 19, 2006 11:56 am

tailcrackin wrote:For every action there is a reaction, common reaction, good post ayers. 5 mo. is awful young to be taking away desire, to much to fast and they will always blow up ......somewhere.

Its just in the yard no birds are used or even in the area. I do not use it in the feild it is just used in the yard right now.

snips · Post by **snips** » Fri May 19, 2006 1:11 pm

Whoa post in Delmars book is used after a yr old. I think your pup is too young and too smart for it.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri May 19, 2006 2:25 pm

I agree Brenda and Jonesy. Besides, what is the purpose of learning Whoa at that age? That is the age to be learning Go.

Ezzy

Post by **Ayres** » Fri May 19, 2006 3:45 pm

Ezzy is right. Happy time is tough to get through for an impatient owner (I was one for sure!) but it's also the most essential. I started pushing Justus between 6 and 12 months and he was too smart for it, and too young. I gave him a huge break last summer, doing mostly nothing but running for fun, and then got back to training late last fall. By January he turned it on and went from JH level hunting to MH level hunting in a matter of weeks. It was seriously like flipping a switch.

HUTCH · Post by **HUTCH** » Fri May 19, 2006 7:28 pm

Try getting a command lead and teach the pup to come with you(what he is not doing) this has helped me. also try using posts in several different locations. good luck.

QCBirddogs · Post by **QCBirddogs** » Sat May 20, 2006 3:42 pm

Woops...sorry Ryan havent been on the boards in a while...Been busy here!

I agree.......He is a bit young for whoa training. Seems like he is getting a bit confused and trying to please you by doing what you taught him to do.

You should be letting him find himself first before reeling him in.

Phil

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Sat May 20, 2006 10:41 pm

QCBirddogs wrote:Woops...sorry Ryan havent been on the boards in a while...Been busy here!

I agree.......He is a bit young for whoa training. Seems like he is getting a bit confused and trying to please you by doing what you taught him to do.

You should be letting him find himself first before reeling him in.

Phil

Ok I will slow it down and try again in a month or 2. I got lots I can do with him in the mean time. Thanks

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Sun May 21, 2006 8:12 am

Ryan wrote: Ok I will slow it down and try again in a month or 2. I got lots I can do with him in the mean time. Thanks

If the date in the pedigree, Dec, 2005, is correct, you ought to think about waiting 7 to 9 months.

Someone said "training bird dogs is easy...it's patience that's so hard to come by".

If you have even a smidgen of it at your age, you've beat me to it by 10 years.

Best,

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun May 21, 2006 11:07 am

Ryan,

What everyone is trying to tell you is let the pup be a pup. If you want a robot you didn't spend your money wisely when you bought a dog. You do have lots of things you can do with him for now such as go for walks, pet, and play. Teach come and a few other minor things like walking on a loose lead and stacking. Also standing while you clip toenails and use the clippers on his neck and ears. These are all things that will make life easier for both of you. And then maybe in a few months when he is getting near two you can get into serious bird training.

This post you made should not take place till next summer as far as serious training. And just because you are training in the yard it still can be stressful for him. Bet your mom didn't train you "WHOA" when you were two years old. And that is what you are trying to do with a pup. Let him play and investigate now and you have a much better chance of having a well adjusted happy bird dog that can think for it self.

Ezzy

HUTCH · Post by **HUTCH** » Sun May 21, 2006 9:13 pm

since I rescued my redbone hound I have been research hunting and training a hound and found that alot of the people teach basic ob pretty early and its the first thing they do. then these dogs basically go out and hunt game all alone without contact from the hunter or Independently.

But everyone in the Bird dog game feels so strongly that early handle on a dog will take away independence? to me whoa is a command no different from come. but nobody wants to teach a dog whoa before a year? I have seen dang near broke pups at 6 months. why is everyone so worried about teaching OB to bird dogs who dont hunt near as indepently as say hounds? maybe someone with more expeirience can explain this?( I hope this is not taken as causing a problem I just want some opinions on it) thanks.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun May 21, 2006 10:08 pm

Hutch,

I can't ever remember seeing a hound that was obedience trained. May have been trained but they sure forgot it when in the field. There are many things you can and should teach a dog when its young. You might even teach Whoa if you want to train Whoa if you want the dog to wait before eating or to wait before running through the door on the way into or out of the house.

But you don't want to train Whoa to keep a puppy from chasing a bird while it is young. And you don't need to teach sit which may be a problem later when you are forcing a dog to do something it doesn't want to do.

Any field training of a hound generally is just to take them into the field and getting them on a track. There is no pressure required to accomplish that. In other words hound training is almost 100% positive but field training to break a birddog is pretty much negative training. Negative creates a lot more pressure.

Ezzy