Tips for hard dogs

[isonychia]

Does anyone else have a super assertive dog? My dog seems only to respond to pressure and never to any desire to please. I started are training off very soft since he is a brit and I was a new trainer. After months of no progress and plenty of love I stepped it up and voila, results. Still though, it seems like a constant battle.

[kninebirddog]

Just like people some just need to be told not to stick any thing in the electric socket and some just find out for themselves

[adogslife]

Maybe it's the training method?

[isonychia]

Maybe it's the training method?

No he minds very well and is actually pretty obedient (seems to be going through terrible 2s early, but then again he went through the testing dominance stage at about 8 wks instead of 12-13). The only thing is that it makes our relationship seem more like domination versus love...

[adogslife]

Not questioning if the dog is obedient or cooperative.
Questioning if you are teaching first then training,then if need be, simplifying.

[PntrRookie]

...it seems like a constant battle.

Here as well. I have a 3 yr old EP that tests me every time I put her in a trial. When there are liberated quail - which she knows she can catch - I do NOT trust her. How do we got through to these hard headed dogs. I truly feel she does not respect that bird.

[Sharon]

I had what I thought was a hard headed dog once but I was the problem. I didn't know what I was doing (Very long ago of course. ) Find an experienced person or visit a pro's place and have him/her watch you handle the dog. Might be money well spent.

[mxdad777]

Find an experienced person or visit a pro's place and have him/her watch you handle the dog. Might be money well spent.

x2

[ezzy333]

I will have to admit in reading this from the beginning I see nothing that says the dog is hard headed but rather just a pup doing what any good pup will do. Age, experience, and training will cure the problem is there really is one.

Talk to someone with some experience and get some help if you feel you need it.

Ezzy

[4dabirds]

My dog seems only to respond to pressure and never to any desire to please.

Did it ever occur to you what pleases the dog. You have to consider the motivation of the dog . The dog is motivated to please itself not you. The more pressure you put on the dog in training the less desire the dog will have to train. If you set the dog up to succeed you do not have to correct the dog, if your dog succeeds in training it will be rewarded. If the dog is rewarded in training it will have more desire to train. If the dog has more desire to train you can work the dog longer in training thus guaranteeing more success . If the dog has more success you will be pleased by the dog. The dog is pleasing itself and in return you are pleased. It is a symbiotic relationship!

[gonehuntin']

I had what I thought was a hard headed dog once but I was the problem. I didn't know what I was doing (Very long ago of course. ) Find an experienced person or visit a pro's place and have him/her watch you handle the dog. Might be money well spent.

+3

Mostly, I see it as training error. Occasionally though you WILL run into that incredibly willful dog that nothing works with but constant pressure. Those animals are NOT a pleasure to own or to train.

[isonychia]

My dog seems only to respond to pressure and never to any desire to please.

Did it ever occur to you what pleases the dog. You have to consider the motivation of the dog . The dog is motivated to please itself not you. The more pressure you put on the dog in training the less desire the dog will have to train. If you set the dog up to succeed you do not have to correct the dog, if your dog succeeds in training it will be rewarded. If the dog is rewarded in training it will have more desire to train. If the dog has more desire to train you can work the dog longer in training thus guaranteeing more success . If the dog has more success you will be pleased by the dog. The dog is pleasing itself and in return you are pleased. It is a symbiotic relationship!

This is exactly my training mentality. You know after reading back over this I guess my dog isn't that hard headed, he is just very assertive. I might clarify by saying that he generally does what I want of him with the exception of pulling on the leash. I just hear stories and read tips for brittanies about scolding your dog being enough punishment. My dog has never shown me any sign of guilt. I have never seen any cowarding or ear lowering. He just isn't very emotionally weak. I great dog really, maybe the best combination of traits. I might add that my dog has always been bad at taking ques from other dogs, he requires a lot of consistancy and follow up, basically he doesn't believe your threats until you put your money where your mouth is, so he respects me, but "bleep" does he seem to give my girlfriend a lot more love :roll: Maybe not anymore now that I've shot birds for him.

[4dabirds]

t taking ques from other dogs,

asically he doesn't believe your threats until you put your money where your mouth is, so he respects me, but "bleep" does he seem to give my girlfriend a lot more love Maybe not anymore now that I've shot birds for him.

I think the point you are missing here is that dogs are not moral . They cant be bad. They exhibit behaviors that are unwanted. behaviors that are unwanted should and need to be corrected, but only if the dog has been trained in an alternate behavior. Dogs need cues from you not other dogs. You need to teach the behavior shape the behavior then generalize the behavior and when the behavior is 80 percent only then correct for the misbehavior. If the dog only succeeds until it is 80% it will understand why it is being corrected. There is no need for the dog to know the correction is coming from you, the dog only needs to know that the misbehavior is unsafe for the dog. When the dog is 80% there is no threat the dog misbehaves the dog gets corrected.If you correct the dog some of the time for an unwanted behavior the times you do not correct the dog learns the behavior is ok. Now the dog is apprehensive because it does not know what you want this is variable conditioning and is confusing to the dog.Read the book culture clash by jean donaldson it will help you to understand the dog person relationship better and will make you relationship with your dog better. you can get it on amazon .com under $10

[isonychia]

t taking ques from other dogs,

asically he doesn't believe your threats until you put your money where your mouth is, so he respects me, but "bleep" does he seem to give my girlfriend a lot more love Maybe not anymore now that I've shot birds for him.

I think the point you are missing here is that dogs are not moral . They cant be bad. They exhibit behaviors that are unwanted. behaviors that are unwanted should and need to be corrected, but only if the dog has been trained in an alternate behavior. Dogs need cues from you not other dogs. You need to teach the behavior shape the behavior then generalize the behavior and when the behavior is 80 percent only then correct for the misbehavior. If the dog only succeeds until it is 80% it will understand why it is being corrected. There is no need for the dog to know the correction is coming from you, the dog only needs to know that the misbehavior is unsafe for the dog. When the dog is 80% there is no threat the dog misbehaves the dog gets corrected.If you correct the dog some of the time for an unwanted behavior the times you do not correct the dog learns the behavior is ok. Now the dog is apprehensive because it does not know what you want this is variable conditioning and is confusing to the dog.Read the book culture clash by jean donaldson it will help you to understand the dog person relationship better and will make you relationship with your dog better. you can get it on amazon .com under $10

Agreed, I honestly don't know why I created this thread anymore. My dog used to not take cues from other dogs and then get correct, after a while he learned (except one fight he had when he was tied up and this guy had his aggressive dog off leash that came up and attacked my dog when my dog was licking his thing, my dog loves licking other dogs penis's, whats up with that?) I am always consistent with my dog, no couch, no chewing on anything other than what I gave him (he knows), etc etc and always enforced. My girlfriend on the other hand is not consistent. Consistency being you mean what you say, I am consistent in that if he doesn't listen he gets corrected (pushed off couch, spanked w/e) My girlfriend will say no and give a sorry attempt at getting him off the couch, so he thinks she is playing and goes back on the couch. That may be why he shoes her more love, because she gives him less restriction, but i'll be "bleep" if that ain't the story of most american families and their children!

[isonychia]

I think the point you are missing here is that dogs are not moral . They cant be bad.

I'll take note on this, I think it will change my training attitude and do some good.

[Sharon]

t taking ques from other dogs,

asically he doesn't believe your threats until you put your money where your mouth is, so he respects me, but "bleep" does he seem to give my girlfriend a lot more love Maybe not anymore now that I've shot birds for him.

I think the point you are missing here is that dogs are not moral . They cant be bad. They exhibit behaviors that are unwanted. behaviors that are unwanted should and need to be corrected, but only if the dog has been trained in an alternate behavior. Dogs need cues from you not other dogs. You need to teach the behavior shape the behavior then generalize the behavior and when the behavior is 80 percent only then correct for the misbehavior. If the dog only succeeds until it is 80% it will understand why it is being corrected. There is no need for the dog to know the correction is coming from you, the dog only needs to know that the misbehavior is unsafe for the dog. When the dog is 80% there is no threat the dog misbehaves the dog gets corrected.If you correct the dog some of the time for an unwanted behavior the times you do not correct the dog learns the behavior is ok. Now the dog is apprehensive because it does not know what you want this is variable conditioning and is confusing to the dog.Read the book culture clash by jean donaldson it will help you to understand the dog person relationship better and will make you relationship with your dog better. you can get it on amazon .com under $10

Agreed, I honestly don't know why I created this thread anymore. My dog used to not take cues from other dogs and then get correct, after a while he learned (except one fight he had when he was tied up and this guy had his aggressive dog off leash that came up and attacked my dog when my dog was licking his thing, my dog loves licking other dogs penis's, whats up with that?) I am always consistent with my dog, no couch, no chewing on anything other than what I gave him (he knows), etc etc and always enforced. My girlfriend on the other hand is not consistent. Consistency being you mean what you say, I am consistent in that if he doesn't listen he gets corrected (pushed off couch, spanked w/e) My girlfriend will say no and give a sorry attempt at getting him off the couch, so he thinks she is playing and goes back on the couch. That may be why he shoes her more love, because she gives him less restriction, but i'll be "bleep" if that ain't the story of most american families and their children!

LOL Don't feel bad. That happens a lot on here.

There's a lot I could say but to answer your question but , "licking penis' " is very normal. It's all part of the submissive/dominance relationship between dogs.

[birddogger]

I had what I thought was a hard headed dog once but I was the problem. I didn't know what I was doing (Very long ago of course. ) Find an experienced person or visit a pro's place and have him/her watch you handle the dog. Might be money well spent.

+3

Mostly, I see it as training error. Occasionally though you WILL run into that incredibly willful dog that nothing works with but constant pressure. Those animals are NOT a pleasure to own or to train.

I whole heartedly agree with this. I still use the term hard headed sometimes but I know it is just a dog being a dog.

Charlie

[gonehuntin']

my dog loves licking other dogs penis's, whats up with that?)

Not so suttle hint to your girlfriend??

[isonychia]

my dog loves licking other dogs penis's, whats up with that?)

Not so suttle hint to your girlfriend??

Yeah but the messed up thing is that I see/saw this as a submissive behavior, then this loos dog starts growling at my pup thats tied up at our camp site and then attacks him (luckily no wounds). Anyways I guess some dogs get it and others don't, clearly the other dog was the problem in this case seeing as I've put my dog in day cares with 30+ dogs of large breeds all together at once with no problems but a lot of play!

[Sharon]

I don't know why but a leashed dog is more often "assaulted" , then a loose dog- from my experience.
Your dog was being a little too pushy and the older told him. Actually a good lesson for pup, since he got the message but wasn't hurt.

[isonychia]

I don't know why but a leashed dog is more often "assaulted" , then a loose dog- from my experience.
Your dog was being a little too pushy and the older told him. Actually a good lesson for pup, since he got the message but wasn't hurt.

I agree, he sure thought he was killed though, I'll never forget that bawling! I just laughed thinking about it.