Launchers and scenting

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ROTTnBRITT
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Launchers and scenting

Post by ROTTnBRITT » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:12 am

Do Launchers have an effect on the amount of scent dispersed from the bird?

What factors do you consider when choosing a location for the launcher? Or do you just put it anywhere out of sight?

I had my pup out yesterday and didnt have a very successful steadiness session. It turned in to a stop to flush session. The conditions for scenting werent the best. We had swirling winds here and there and no wind most of the time. I did get one good point when we were finished on a bird that was released from the first set up. It was really close though. Like 5 ft. away. Im still up in the air on how well my dogs nose is. There are times I think it doesnt work at all. :?
I need to get him out more!

moonshinekennel
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Re: Launchers and scenting

Post by moonshinekennel » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:56 pm

I would consider placing a scent bird under a kick trap or using a lock wing pigeon. Than set your launcher
About ten feet away from your scent bird. Sweep the scent bird around than plant it
Out of sight. Bring the dog down wind and across the scent cone. Scent conditions are very important.
Some days you are just further ahead to just forget bird work and take the pup
On a free run or work on something else.
Dale

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Chukar12
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Re: Launchers and scenting

Post by Chukar12 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:04 pm

I agree with Moonshine, it sounds as though he or she is a Hickox disciple...If your dog is on a check cord or VERY reliable this is a good advice and methodology. If not, if you are running the dog without restraint or just an e-collar then a lockwing bird can be cause for a wreck. Try planting the launcher up in a grass clump, or dead brush, or just up a foot or so off the ground where the air tends to circulate better. This almost always produces better scent out of a launcher for me.

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tailcrackin
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Re: Launchers and scenting

Post by tailcrackin » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:23 pm

I am not a fan of locking the wings, one slip of your hands, and your dog has a bird turd. If the wind is against you, so be it, that is how luck falls. Work the dog and put it in a situation to scent and point, if it doesnt....thats fine walk on, make a big sweeping turn, and get back into the area where the dog can see the bird fly when you launch it. You will see in doing this a few times when smelling is against you, the dog will try alot harder to hunt, because it thinks it is messing up on smelling and pointing. Cause the birds are free flying. You will be suprized at the dogs actions afterwards. Thanks Jonesy
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4dabirds
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Re: Launchers and scenting

Post by 4dabirds » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:07 pm

moonshinekennel wrote:I would consider placing a scent bird under a kick trap or using a lock wing pigeon. Than set your launcher
About ten feet away from your scent bird. Sweep the scent bird around than plant it
Out of sight. Bring the dog down wind and across the scent cone. Scent conditions are very important.
Some days you are just further ahead to just forget bird work and take the pup
On a free run or work on something else.
Dale
I agree with this advice only I would keep the launcher back 25 to 30 feet tether the birds to the launcher with 15 feet of string this way when you fire the blank gun the bird will come down every time with no chance it lands in proximity of the dog.Bury the lock wing bird in a pile of grass so the dog will mot see it and mark it with surveyors tape so you do. There is no reason to do this work without a check=cord you are not teaching the dog to hunt the dog will learn that on its own, If you are like me you dont always get the best flying pigeons and this method will keep them from flying into the dogs mouth.

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DonF
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Re: Launchers and scenting

Post by DonF » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:13 pm

I would not put out a scent bird, that is a bird he may well catch. In which case the launcher serves no purpose. There's a simple trick to using a launcher, think like a wild bird. If a wild bird would do it, you need to do it also. What the launcher does really well is let you control the bird and do what will best help you dog.

Knowing what the wind is doing is very important. If it's blowing hard enough to blow up the scent, train at something else. If you think it's not blowing at all, you maybe right but. have a little bottle of baby powder with you and put a bit in the aid, it will tell you is there is movement and which way it's moving. If it doesn't appear to be moving at all, out the trap out and let it set ten minutes or so, the scent will spread. There is movement even if you can't see it. Target match shooter's see it all the time, it's called mirage. No wind to speak of and you cant see the air move but it is. Just give the trap a bit of time. You really need to know about the wind and set the trap where it does you the most good.

Using the trap, be a wild bird and then some. Bring your dog cross wind of the trap if you can, preferably about ten yds. off the bird. If the dog is on the scent side it will let you know, learn to read your dog. It will give some indication that there is something over there and at that moment you pop the bird and don't say a word. Bear in mind you know exactly where the bird is and most times you exactly where a breeze is coming from, use that to your advantage. If your dog goes by on the upwind side it gets anywhere near the 10 yd limit, pop the bird., Do not leave it there and bring the dog around again hoping to get a point, a wild bird won't do that and neither should you. Take your dog on to the next trap and go thru the whole routine again, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT THE WHOLE TIME EXCEPT TO BRING THE DOG BACK AROUND. That is important, you are not the trainer now, the bird is, make the dog deal with the bird. That is the big advantage of pigeons in the training field and wild birds. You will of course, have to turn the dog over to game birds after this. You do not let the dog establish point. You will find that within relatively few birds the dog will beat you to the point. When that happens, do not flush the bird. Go out and around the dog where you can see even it's eye's, very important. If the dog budges a misscule bit, stop and pop the bird at the same time. I suspect it will move some part of the body the first few times. Watch the shoulder's for any sign of movement, same with the hind end. To get going again it will have to move these part's. As you progress, you'll find the dog starting to let you get farther around it but, now pay attention to the eyes. He's gonna be trying to figure this out and he knows every time he moves a bit and your coming around, the bird fly's. So what his next move is is to move only his eyes toward you, pop immediately, he can't move a thing. And continue to say nothing till he get's it right and lets you get to the bird without popping it. Don't wait till your to the bird all the way to pop it. That's not gonna happen with wild birds unless you got some great cover. Once you've got to that point and the dog lets you do what you want to do, now praise the dog. Don't worry about it busting at the flush right now, let it chase, you take that out later.

It's all pretty easy, think stupid. That's what the dog is doing. He bunch's up on point because he's pretty sure he can catch the bird. Then he figure's he can't catch the bird but doesn't want to move now, he's just stuck, so he glances over to you coming around him for help. He does that and you pop the bird. Keep in mind that all the dog wants to do is catch the bird. What you want is to get into position to shoot the bird. What the birds wants is none of this stuff. You control the bird that well, you control the outcome.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Launchers and scenting

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:11 am

All of the advice is great, but you have to use the launchers correctly. Never walk from the truck to a launch site, plant the launcher, and walk back. The dog will trail you right to it. Walk in from a different direction and plant the launcher and bird. Then bring the dog in crosswind on a cc from a different direction so he can't smell your track.

Never plant the bird in very heavy cover. The cover will catch the scent and cause it to bounce around. Plant in medium cover so the wind can sweep the scent across the top of the cover.

I never liked tethering the bird to the trap. When I do it, it's out of necessity. Wild birds don't fly up and land in the same spot. I prefer weighting the pigeon with lead and letting it fly 75 yards away. You get the double benefit in this of forcing the dog to hunt in a different direction from the bird.

Incidentally, if I had a dog that was softening on launchers, I'd simply weight pigeons and toss them into a field, then come in crosswind. They handle them just like wild birds!
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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mudhunter
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Re: Launchers and scenting

Post by mudhunter » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:31 pm

I wouldn't worry about your dogs nose now, the heat, thick summer cover, and planted birds all hamper a dogs nose.

Planted birds in genral don't put out as much scent as wild or prereleased birds. A wild bird has typically been feeding or moving around an area for a while before your dog gets their and if its a covey bird then you have lots of birds putting out scent.

When you plant a bird in a launcher the only scent is whats coming off the bird directly and that is being masked by the launcher itself and the cover you hid it in.

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