Should I take puppy hunting at 14 weeks?

louisgawlik · Post by **louisgawlik** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:57 am

I've been working with my lab for almost 6 weeks and he's retrieving good. I'm almost to the point of introducing gun shots to his training. Should I take him hunting with me yet?

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:59 am

If I read it correctly, you started serious training at 8 weeks?
A 14 week old pup isn't going to be able to make his way through the bush and retrieve a big bird , I wouldn't think. He definately won't be able to hunt all day. If I'm wrong I want to see this pup.

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:02 am

I would be introducing the gun shot well before taking him hunting. Proper introduction. No sense in taking a chance of screwing up the pup.
What type hunting you thinking? Upland ducks?

I would not take a 14 week old puppy to the duck blind. Especially if it is a very active hunting spot. Way to much shooting before the pup has full confidence and understanding what is going on. If you want to take the pup on a week day to a spot that you know there will only be you then maybe take him out in the canoe to the blind and only shoot once or twice.

Remember duck loads are louder and sharper than the light loads we use for upland training.

Upland hunting, still the same advise. But I always take a pup into the woods to try to find birds and get used to being in the woods and let them have fun, explore, figure stuff out. Have a bell on the pup so you know where he is.

Did not notice where you are located.

Have fun with the pup but use good common sense. It is harder to fix something than it is to prevent something.
Rick

louisgawlik · Post by **louisgawlik** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:07 am

I would be taking him dove hunting in south Texas. It would be only for a couple of hours. Also my truck would be near so if he seemed tired I would load him up.

kc95gt · Post by **kc95gt** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:10 am

Have you gotten the pup used to gun shots yet? If not then don't take him out there, it could ruin his first experience. If he's used to gun shots already, then maybe take him out for some light exposure, but nothing too serious or intense his first time out. I wouldn't really be firing too many shots over his head at that age.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:17 am

louisgawlik wrote:I've been working with my lab for almost 6 weeks and he's retrieving good. I'm almost to the point of introducing gun shots to his training. Should I take him hunting with me yet?

If your pup has not been fully conditioned to gunshots I would not be taking him hunting specially with buddy's ...
You need to pay attention to how the pup handles new situations as if the pup gets confused at new this and new that and you go adding gun shots in the mix ..this can be to much sensory over load for the pup

Now if you are by your self I would take pup and let him begin to learn about the field ...but make sure he is doing stuff where he is confident..if he is getting or is used to what the gun is about..then when the pup has his mind on a bird one shot and one shot only

Once you see pup is happy and confident.. in the field keep him fresh and going do not force him to stay in the field where he is not having fun..keep everything fun and exciting now things things will go better as he matures

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:36 am

Dove hunting: Aren't there many folks out there at the same time? (no doe hunts here.)I would only take him when you are by your self. And again make sure he is solid on gun intro. Do it properly. And don't have him exposed to too much shooting at this age.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:38 am

Doesn't strike me as a good idea going around that much gunfire with such a young pup. Lots more bad things can happen than good. I would leave him home. JMHO

bumper52 · Post by **bumper52** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:42 am

I personally believe you would be making a huge mistake by taking 14 week puppy hunting. There are way too many distractions, which could create major problems down the road. I understand that some people want to get there pup out hunting, but trust me, they will learn to hunt soon enough. I would strongly suggest NOT taking a pup at this age hunting. Continue doing basic yard work and then gradually introduce these concepts to the field.

adogslife · Post by **adogslife** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:46 am

I've been working with my lab for almost 6 weeks and he's retrieving good

Let me get this straight
you got a pup 8 weeks old,have been "working" with him for 6 weeks,now pup is 14 weeks old

you want to take this pup hunting
hunting for what?

Take him fun hunting,no gun,perhaps a capgun with no other hunters in the area to spook him
If you are talking about duck hunting this is a baaaaad idea for many reasons

louisgawlik · Post by **louisgawlik** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:22 am

Thanks for the input guys. He will be staying home in the kennel.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:34 am

I'll just give ya the short answer , NO.

You have the rest of his life to go hunting, its time to be careful and continue formative training.

QuailHollow · Post by **QuailHollow** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:00 am

No. That's way too early for me. At that age I'm tossing toys across my floor at night while watching a movie letting the pup retrieve for treats.. I mean, really, I don't start mine on heavy work and hunting until they are much older. .. like a year old. I just sent my 14 month old pup out with Chris G. in Ohio 2 weeks ago. I finally felt he was ready to start serious bird work. And I guess sending a dog out at 14 months is probably a little 'late' by some standards, but a good friend of mine just finished his dog last week - Kirby is 7 years old.

Let'em be a pup, let'em be a dog. Teach your obedience work. Teach your whoa. Socialize the heck out of him. Don't push, and be patient. It will come together.

ETA: just re-read and noticed the pup is a lab. .. Sorry about that. Well anyway, I would still be patient.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:13 am

Ant HRC or AKC Retriever clubs around you? Training days are a good way to develop a pup. Doves, regardless of gunfire, are a good way to teach them to hate feathers and drop birds.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:20 am

QuailHollow wrote:No. That's way too early for me. At that age I'm tossing toys across my floor at night while watching a movie letting the pup retrieve for treats.. I mean, really, I don't start mine on heavy work and hunting until they are much older. .. like a year old. I just sent my 14 month old pup out with Chris G. in Ohio 2 weeks ago. I finally felt he was ready to start serious bird work. And I guess sending a dog out at 14 months is probably a little 'late' by some standards, but a good friend of mine just finished his dog last week - Kirby is 7 years old.

Let'em be a pup, let'em be a dog. Teach your obedience work. Teach your whoa. Socialize the heck out of him. Don't push, and be patient. It will come together.

Would you let your pup out to chase or bump wild birds and just let him learn slowly on his own. I have a 4mon old pup and I'm planning on just taking him out so he can start having fun finding birds. Little to no training during this time, but in the off chance that he points and lets me flush and he's properly conditioned, I'd let whoever is with me shoot the bird and let the pup go play with it. Any issues with that method or early "hunting?"

Tim

sdpowskier · Post by **sdpowskier** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:58 am

Check out Tom Dokken's retriever training book. It gives approximate time lines for introduction to gun fire, birds, retrieving..ect. I found it helpful for being a first time dog owner so I kind of knew what I should be working on, but every dog is different so it doesn't have to be exact.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:40 am

DogNewbie wrote:
QuailHollow wrote:No. That's way too early for me. At that age I'm tossing toys across my floor at night while watching a movie letting the pup retrieve for treats.. I mean, really, I don't start mine on heavy work and hunting until they are much older. .. like a year old. I just sent my 14 month old pup out with Chris G. in Ohio 2 weeks ago. I finally felt he was ready to start serious bird work. And I guess sending a dog out at 14 months is probably a little 'late' by some standards, but a good friend of mine just finished his dog last week - Kirby is 7 years old.

Let'em be a pup, let'em be a dog. Teach your obedience work. Teach your whoa. Socialize the heck out of him. Don't push, and be patient. It will come together.
Would you let your pup out to chase or bump wild birds and just let him learn slowly on his own. I have a 4mon old pup and I'm planning on just taking him out so he can start having fun finding birds. Little to no training during this time, but in the off chance that he points and lets me flush and he's properly conditioned, I'd let whoever is with me shoot the bird and let the pup go play with it. Any issues with that method or early "hunting?"

Tim

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:41 am

Good plan except don't be shooting any guns until you've properly conditioned pup to the gun - it's a process.

QuailHollow · Post by **QuailHollow** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:41 am

DogNewbie wrote:Would you let your pup out to chase or bump wild birds and just let him learn slowly on his own. I have a 4mon old pup and I'm planning on just taking him out so he can start having fun finding birds. Little to no training during this time, but in the off chance that he points and lets me flush and he's properly conditioned, I'd let whoever is with me shoot the bird and let the pup go play with it. Any issues with that method or early "hunting?"

Tim

Issues with that? Nope, not here. Basically at 4 months old, I did the same thing with Maverick. Only I had been over-run with pigeons in my chicken coops at that time. We shot about 5 or 6 to thin them out. I let my older male out to run around - mainly because Drake is not interested in Pigeons. He ignores them, but his enthusiasm got the pup *pumped up*, so we shot some over him because he was excited. As another form of encouragement, I allowed the pup to pick it up and carry it. Although, I did not allow him to gut, chew, or eat the bird. If I caught him trying, I didn't freak, I just calmly took it away. I also encouraged him to return it to me. Kept it fun, positive, and simple.

Simply by accident, I found out what really made this dog go crazy birdy. I had run out of room in my chukar pen, and so I dumped some of my extra birds in a chicken-tractor (basically a wire pen with a roof). My main pen is fenced in, but this chicken tractor was in the yard - which was accessible to the dogs. When they did their nightly runs he would get so much excitement out of running circles around that pen. They all did. Pointing, breaking, pointing, running, jumping.. you could tell it was really an obsession he just couldn't get enough of. I left that pen set up that way for about 2 months.

I think at about 8/9 months we started really getting into multiple fields, setting birds in the launcher, I let him bump and bump and bump birds.. and let him chase if he desired... letting him run out if he wanted... shot over him once in a while. Once I felt I'd seen that desire set in stone, I started reining it back in with discipline. I got him just about to where I wanted, and sent him to Chris. He has a lot of heart, is bold, and quite smart. He has opened, dug, chewed, or jumped his way out of almost every enclosure I've had him in.. for chickens.. He is honestly the biggest pain in the @ss dog I own, but he's a cool dog to watch. You can see the passion and obsession he has for it. In short, the same thing I told Chris - He's nuts.

Anyway, not saying this is 'the right' way.. just an example. Everyone has their own way.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:52 am

Yeah, that's kinda how I'm hoping to progress as well. I'm really crossing my fingers that he'll have a strong natural point since I don't have a ton of pigeons to use at my disposal...nor do I have consistent access to land to train on for that matter...I think wild birds will be most of his training this year.

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:15 pm

http://www.georgehickox.com/articles/1s ... eks.kp.pdf This might help you.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:39 pm

4dabirds wrote:http://www.georgehickox.com/articles/1s ... eks.kp.pdf This might help you.

That is a very interesting article . Lifestyle was such that many of those guys "a way back then" let litters roam at will on their land.
MUch was learned year 1 about birds by doing that. Serious training often didn't start until 10 months+ .

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:28 pm

Sharon wrote:
4dabirds wrote:http://www.georgehickox.com/articles/1s ... eks.kp.pdf This might help you.
That is a very interesting article . Lifestyle was such that many of those guys "a way back then" let litters roam at will on their land.
MUch was learned year 1 about birds by doing that. Serious training often didn't start until 10 months+ .

There is really no way to agree or disagree with what is stated in the article as the information changes constantly. I do know if it is imperative to heed all of that with a puppy there are thousands upon thousands of good dogs that shouldn't be. Probably 99% of the puppies that are shipped are between the ages where they shouldn't be. I just think it makes interesting study for acedemics but in the real world it just doesn't carry that much importance.

And it is always interesting that every trainer who some people think are the very best disagree on much of what they do and how to do it.

Ezzy

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:36 pm

I guess the thing to do is to consider the source of any info if you think you need to validate that info .

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:42 pm

4dabirds wrote:I guess the thing to do is to consider the source of any info if you think you need to validate that info .

True but in an article written by someone you don't have a clue what the source is.

Al

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:41 pm

4dabirds wrote:I guess the thing to do is to consider the source of any info if you think you need to validate that info .

I see the name George Hickox on your article so It's my guess he wrote it.

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:54 am

Exposure of every kind is good for pups...just make sure that the physical demands are not too much....and put the pup up immediately if it starts to lose interest. Go prepared NOT to shoot birds....the first 2-3 years with every dog is about developing the desire and behaviors we want in a dog. Only reward the behaviors you want. Chasing wild birds is a "no foul" infraction....can't catch them....and as a breeder, I learn a lot about a pup from observing what they do before all the training.....a true Natural Ability test.

I shot a limit of roosters over a 15 week old pup 5 years ago....little guy was consistently 100 yds ahead looking for birds.....it was on the last day in ND...every day before that, the pup got out and explore, chased and did what it wanted. I could see during the end of our trip, he was starting to steady up/get cautious. The last day, I was able to "talk" him steady, walk up and flush birds....I killed three birds and he picked all of them up (one fell in a slough) and coaxed right into me. Every pup is different...do what your pup needs...

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:03 am

Sharon wrote:
4dabirds wrote:I guess the thing to do is to consider the source of any info if you think you need to validate that info .

I see the name George Hickox on your article so It's my guess he wrote it.

Sharon, That is exactly right and that is the problem. He is writing about something he has read, but he didn't give credit to who did the research so you have no way to know. You or I could have written the same article if we wanted to communicate in that manner and it would have the same validity. I am not saying it is wrong but we have no way of checking the validity since Mr. Hickox does't give crewdit to who did the research and put out the info he is writing about.

Ezzy

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:25 am

Ezzy hickox wrote the article it's on his site he gave credit for some of the info to a study and book in the article and yes he knows way more than you and it was
Pertinent to the op George publishes his articles in shooting sportsman you should get a subscription you may learn something. It sure would beat spending yor time criticizing every one of my posts.which in this case you found a way to to even though my post was a reference to an article by one of the most respected dog people In the nation in one of the best humting publications out there .

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:52 am

4dabirds wrote:Ezzy hickox wrote the article it's on his site he gave credit for some of the info to a study and book in the article and yes he knows way more than you and it was
Pertinent to the op George publishes his articles in shooting sportsman you should get a subscription you may learn something. It sure would beat spending yor time criticizing every one of my posts.which in this case you found a way to to even though my post was a reference to an article by one of the most respected dog people In the nation in one of the best humting publications out there .

I am well aware of George and what he does. He is a decent trainer and is working hard at publicizing his business and himself. I do have an objection of practically every post you make you refer to Him and have never posted an original thought or recommended that anybody read anything other than George Hickox. You are not alone as we have people who think the sun rises and sets with Rick Smith and refer to him constantly and no one else.

We do have occasional mentions of Rick Smith, Ron Smith, George Hickox, Dave Walker, plus the ones on here like Mo, Jonesy, Gonehuntin, and Evan from other people. I think we all appreciate what each of them have done and mention or suggest that someone check out a certain article or seminar or other activity but to suggest in every post you make to read only George Hickox who probably has accomplished less than the others I have mentioned is saying more about you than helping the people needing help.

I would guess each of the trainers mentioned know more than I do. That is a rather large club and I haven't done much training in the past few years. But I do know enough to know that one trainer isn't better than all the rest or even more than a lot of our owner trainers that are on this forum everyday. A lot of us have been involved long before George was and have some evidence we used to know what we were doing. And that is what I would like to see from you instead of just regurgitating what someone else has published.

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:28 am

Wow I'm speachless check out my last post I'm sure you will love it I learned it at hickox camp.

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:13 pm

louisgawlik wrote:I've been working with my lab for almost 6 weeks and he's retrieving good. I'm almost to the point of introducing gun shots to his training. Should I take him hunting with me yet?

Think of the word "NO" in the most strenuous manner. That would be my advice.

The risks far outweigh the potential benefits. Your pup has many seasons ahead. Train, take your time, and then hunt next year.

EvanG

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:01 pm

Gosh, all 4dabirds said was "this might help". I thought that was the purpose of the forum...helping people. I am not a disciple of Hickox, but he does offer some good information and I must admit I own some of his videos as well as many, many others. When I was starting in bird dogs I guess I reguritated everything I could read that was written by Delmar Smith. If someone elects to follow a certain trainers program, thats fine if it works for them. The article 4dabirds posted had good information. I'm sure if the information contained in the article was plagiarized it would not have been published or legal action would have been taken against the author and the magazine. I, for one, appreciate all information as long as it comes from a legitimate source. It is then my responsibilty to "filter" that information and make a decision as to use it or not. "Never posted an original thought" is a little over the top. Anyway, if there is a possibility that other hunters would be with you, I would not take him. As always,all said is jmo.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:38 am

I would never take a pup that young hunting. But I have seen a lot of people do it! If it's the right thing or the wrong thing to do, who really knows. Probably depends more on the pup than anything. Often finding out what bothers a pup to soon pretty much screw's up the pup. It is a puppy! What I found is that I like to start pup's much older. I seldom have a case of second year madness that way. I don't expose the pup to a lot of gunfire to soon, the pup doesn't get into any tuff positions that it may not be mature enough to handle and most of all, down the road when serious training does begin, I don't have to unteach bad habits learned by a puppy to young to have known better in the first place.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:10 pm

bossman wrote:Gosh, all 4dabirds said was "this might help". I thought that was the purpose of the forum...helping people. I am not a disciple of Hickox, but he does offer some good information and I must admit I own some of his videos as well as many, many others. When I was starting in bird dogs I guess I reguritated everything I could read that was written by Delmar Smith. If someone elects to follow a certain trainers program, thats fine if it works for them. The article 4dabirds posted had good information. I'm sure if the information contained in the article was plagiarized it would not have been published or legal action would have been taken against the author and the magazine. I, for one, appreciate all information as long as it comes from a legitimate source. It is then my responsibilty to "filter" that information and make a decision as to use it or not. "Never posted an original thought" is a little over the top. Anyway, if there is a possibility that other hunters would be with you, I would not take him. As always,all said is jmo.

Bossman, if you are refering to what I posted, I didn't say a thing about that thread, or if George Hickox knows what he is doing. I did say he was one of several pros who seems to do a pretty good job and I also said when George, you, or I write an article without footnotes stating where the info comes from it is difficult to know just what went into the study, who did the study, or see the protocol or results.

Ezzy

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:37 pm

Ezzy, I appreciate your response. I just think some of your post took on much more of a personal rather than a professional tone. It might be a good idea if we had people who could "reguritate" information from Hickox, Rick Smith, Jon Hann, Keith Gulledge, Maurice Lindley, Rich Barber, Sherry Ray Ebert, Dave Walker, etc; etc;. Just think what resouces we sould have, if they were original or not. Anyway, I hope yo realize how much I appreciate all you try to do for the forum

louisgawlik · Post by **louisgawlik** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:06 pm

Well, I did take pup a week later after I asked the question and he loves it!! Not even close to being gun shy and loves to run around field and just be a pup. I also have another lab 2 weeks younger and I would never consider taking her because I know she is no where close to being ready.

Well after all of the replies, I guess people just need to know there dog well enough to make these kind of decisions.

jonf1023 · Post by **jonf1023** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:55 pm

14 week pups are fun playful and have the attention span of a 4 year old kid. I would keep all training at this age a fun game that doesnt go on too long. I personally get my pups used to gun shots while they are all worked up playing fetch and I use a starter pistol that isnt too loud. When they are excited playing fetch the blast of the starter gun hardly phases them and they then take to a shotgun easily.

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