E collar conditioning...
E collar conditioning...
Ok so i just got an e-collar yesterday and i've started using it on my 6month old britt. What i've been doing is putting him on a check cord and use commands he knows (ex. here, whoa, ect). I start by just using vibrate 90% he responds if he ignores me i nic him (on level 4..just enough for him to shake his head) and as soon as he responds i stop the stimulation (i'm also lightly tugging on the rope like i always have).
Am i going about this in the right way? I'm not teaching him anything new, i'm just using the collar to re-enforce what i want him to do (i also tug on the check cord at the same time). Is it ok just to use vibrate if he responds?
Thanks.
Am i going about this in the right way? I'm not teaching him anything new, i'm just using the collar to re-enforce what i want him to do (i also tug on the check cord at the same time). Is it ok just to use vibrate if he responds?
Thanks.
PSA: DO NOT SELL ANYTHING TO "MRCREOLE", HE WILL RIP YOU OFF, JUST LIKE HE HAS RIPPED ME OFF (I will not edit this signature until I am paid by him)
- kninebirddog
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Re: E collar conditioning...
You need to have a method
The method I use preps a dog for points of contact so when I over lay with the e collar the Stimulation has a meaning
As fr Vibration..You will have to wait for a response from someone that uses that feature.. don't as the lower levels on My collar have less stimulation factor then that vibrate does
I also have where momentary has a meaning for Movement commands and what I am doing will be the first cue as in if I am walking and dog is headed in a direction that isn't going with me I will tap the button until the dog is going with me If I am standing still and the dog doesn't start to come towards me I will tap the button until the dog is coming to me
After I work the Risk Smith Method of the post for teaching a point of contact then a constant till stop will be applied starting at the flank with the e collar
but I begin this teaching of cues with the command lead over lay to check cord over lay to e collar
http://www.kninebirddog.com/understandi ... ollar.html
The method I use preps a dog for points of contact so when I over lay with the e collar the Stimulation has a meaning
As fr Vibration..You will have to wait for a response from someone that uses that feature.. don't as the lower levels on My collar have less stimulation factor then that vibrate does
I also have where momentary has a meaning for Movement commands and what I am doing will be the first cue as in if I am walking and dog is headed in a direction that isn't going with me I will tap the button until the dog is going with me If I am standing still and the dog doesn't start to come towards me I will tap the button until the dog is coming to me
After I work the Risk Smith Method of the post for teaching a point of contact then a constant till stop will be applied starting at the flank with the e collar
but I begin this teaching of cues with the command lead over lay to check cord over lay to e collar
http://www.kninebirddog.com/understandi ... ollar.html
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
- RoostersMom
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Re: E collar conditioning...
If I was you, I'd go backwards. Keep the collar on the dog during training sessions for several weeks and do NOT use the collar. Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise. You need to keep the collar on without stimulation for several weeks before you start using the collar.
I would also get a copy of the perfect start - it shows you how to properly collar condition a dog. Or if working a retriever - Evan Graham's series is good.
I would also get a copy of the perfect start - it shows you how to properly collar condition a dog. Or if working a retriever - Evan Graham's series is good.
Re: E collar conditioning...
+1
Squirt and Duke neither has ever been shocked, they respond very well to the vibrate. Bodie is a different story. If you ever expect to remove thr collar in the field, you don't want him collar wise.
Squirt and Duke neither has ever been shocked, they respond very well to the vibrate. Bodie is a different story. If you ever expect to remove thr collar in the field, you don't want him collar wise.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!
Re: E collar conditioning...
I hear this so much.Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise
Is there any proof of this?
- gonehuntin'
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Re: E collar conditioning...
Well, if you talk to the retriever trainers, who developed the whole, modern, electric collar program, they'll be only too glad to share stories with you.adogslife wrote:I hear this so much.Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise
Is there any proof of this?
It takes a stupid, stupid, dog to not know when a collar has been strapped on him for an infraction. A collar dog is a collar dog and they wear them 100% of the time. There is NO reason NOT to keep a collar on a dog unless he is in a trial.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
Re: E collar conditioning...
Your kidding, right?adogslife wrote:I hear this so much.Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise
Is there any proof of this?
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!
Re: E collar conditioning...
Yes, I have a Llew who is collar smart.... you pull it out and she immediately puts her tail between her legs and goes to hide. If I take put it on her anyways and take her out, she will not leave my side. Now, I always put it on my dog anytime they go out anywhere, not even just out bird hunting.adogslife wrote:I hear this so much.Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise
Is there any proof of this?
Re: E collar conditioning...
Gee kelly your story makes me cringe. Sorry. That is a dog who has had the collar used incorrectly by someone. Not normal at all for a dog that has been properly conditioned to the collar. You say you make her wear it anyways? I 'd put that collar away until my dog hopefully got her sense of security back. That isn't collar smart.
As a comparison only; When I get out the electricity my dogs start jumping around, smiling , knowing we're going somewhere.
As a comparison only; When I get out the electricity my dogs start jumping around, smiling , knowing we're going somewhere.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
- Vonzeppelinkennels
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Re: E collar conditioning...
A dog that has been introduced to the E-collar in the correct manner will get excited at the sight of it because it means they are going to get worked.
All bird dogs look forward to that & if they don't I want another dog!!
All bird dogs look forward to that & if they don't I want another dog!!
Star & Storm's placements
http://www.fieldtrialdatabase.com/dog.php4?id=23322
http://www.fieldtrialdatabase.com/dog.php4?id=65770
Ted Meyer
http://www.fieldtrialdatabase.com/dog.php4?id=23322
http://www.fieldtrialdatabase.com/dog.php4?id=65770
Ted Meyer
Re: E collar conditioning...
Two things makes Butler get excited, me putting on my boots and strapping the e-collar on him. Because he knows the fun is about ready to begin .gpblitz wrote:Right on!!! I introduce the E- collar with a very simple method. Since my are all house dogs intro is everytime I let one outside. You should see how they line up and beg to have the E-collar strapped on there neck. The E-collar to them is better than treats.Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:A dog that has been introduced to the E-collar in the correct manner will get excited at the sight of it because it means they are going to get worked.
Butler "beep" the e-collar for about a week even before I turned it on to find a response. I started off with a 2 low (Pro 100)and after a short time a nic on 1 or a 1 low got his attention. Now I very rarely use it, only if I have to repeat a command.
Last edited by Aries on Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- birddogger
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Re: E collar conditioning...
Yup, all my dogs get real happy when they see the e-collar.
Charlie
Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way
Re: E collar conditioning...
Forgot to add that I've been putting the e-collar on Butlers belly about every other day during whoa and steady training and have yet to turn it on. Once he gets to where I think he's ready I'll introduce the collar into the training.
Re: E collar conditioning...
I didn't say only put the collar on the dog when you train.
I asked for proof that having a dog wear a collar for weeks,months even, without turning it on really has anything to do with creating a non-collar wise dog.
Becoming collar wise is all about what the trainer does once the collar is turned on.
really, do you really believe your dog is so dumb that wearing it around his flank with it turned off is conditioning him to be non collar wise?Once you press the button once, he'll learn his lessons well, but he will know each and every time you put that collar on to behave.
I asked for proof that having a dog wear a collar for weeks,months even, without turning it on really has anything to do with creating a non-collar wise dog.
Becoming collar wise is all about what the trainer does once the collar is turned on.
Well, sure, the dog will never figure out it's the collar around his belly and that you are causing it,Forgot to add that I've been putting the e-collar on Butlers belly about every other day during whoa and steady training and have yet to turn it on.
really, do you really believe your dog is so dumb that wearing it around his flank with it turned off is conditioning him to be non collar wise?Once you press the button once, he'll learn his lessons well, but he will know each and every time you put that collar on to behave.
Last edited by adogslife on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: E collar conditioning...
Not specifically. But, like most things, it depends on how you do it. If you were following an established and credible program you would associate the stimulus with a known command, and condition the dog to eliminate the stimulus through compliance with the command. Following that path of logic, you need not have the dog wear the collar prior to collar use. The key is to make sure the collar is worn on all future occasions where the dog will be in position to train or work under command. Be very consistent.adogslife wrote:I hear this so much.Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise
Is there any proof of this?
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
- 4dabirds
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Re: E collar conditioning...
just to clarify it seems to me your saying dogs learn by association and putting the collar on the dog creates an association that is good but not relative to the training association of compliance to a command by recognizing a trained behavior and avoiding stimulationEvanG wrote:Not specifically. But, like most things, it depends on how you do it. If you were following an established and credible program you would associate the stimulus with a known command, and condition the dog to eliminate the stimulus through compliance with the command. Following that path of logic, you need not have the dog wear the collar prior to collar use. The key is to make sure the collar is worn on all future occasions where the dog will be in position to train or work under command. Be very consistent.adogslife wrote:I hear this so much.Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise
Is there any proof of this?
EvanG
- birddogger
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Re: E collar conditioning...
Say what?just to clarify it seems to me your saying dogs learn by association and putting the collar on the dog creates an association that is good but not relative to the training association of compliance to a command by recognizing a trained behavior and avoiding stimulation
Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way
- gonehuntin'
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Re: E collar conditioning...
You guys can make dog training seem so freakin' complicated, I can't believe it.4dabirds wrote:
just to clarify it seems to me your saying dogs learn by association and putting the collar on the dog creates an association that is good but not relative to the training association of compliance to a command by recognizing a trained behavior and avoiding stimulation
Simply put, when a dog has been collar conditioned correctly, the collar should excite him and mean a pleasurable experience is coming. A collar dog is so used to doing things right, he just never does them wrong.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
Re: E collar conditioning...
Ok thanks guys, i've already just started putting it on him when he goes out....with the collar off. I'll do that for a few weeks..
PSA: DO NOT SELL ANYTHING TO "MRCREOLE", HE WILL RIP YOU OFF, JUST LIKE HE HAS RIPPED ME OFF (I will not edit this signature until I am paid by him)
- gonehuntin'
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Re: E collar conditioning...
Swing it around like a bumper and excite him before you put it on so he always associates it with a pleasurable experience.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
- birddogger
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Re: E collar conditioning...
Hmm, I never gave that a thought, but it sounds like a good idea. A lot of the little simple things can make big difference....No need to make it complicated.gonehuntin' wrote:Swing it around like a bumper and excite him before you put it on so he always associates it with a pleasurable experience.
Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way
Re: E collar conditioning...
They learn nothing by putting that contraption on their necks. The learning begins when we do things in association with its presence. That's why inconsistent use makes them wise to it. It's on = standards are enforced. It's off = I'm free!!4dabirds wrote: just to clarify it seems to me your saying dogs learn by association and putting the collar on the dog creates an association that is good but not relative to the training association of compliance to a command by recognizing a trained behavior and avoiding stimulation
It's really not that complicated.
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
- 4dabirds
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Re: E collar conditioning...
What I meant by putting it on was they will associate the collar with it's time to train not that they learn anything by it. If you put the collar on and treat the dog poorly then the association would be negative
Re: E collar conditioning...
I fully agree, especially if this happens with consistency.
EvanG
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum