Releasing birds-dog points...then what?

gdog · Post by **gdog** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:06 am

I have a 4 month old Pudelpointer. Started releasing birds (pigeons) for her. I am planting the birds in high grass and also putting then in a launcher. This morning, I had to basically lead her to the first bird and she rushed it...I gave it the boot and off it flew.

2nd bird she pointed strong from a short distance. Held till I got in front of her and then started to move...I bumped the bird...it didn't fly at first but I was able to keep the dog off it (check cord).

Third bird was in launcher...she got very close to launcher...winded the bird but didn't point...I launced it.

Fourth and last bird for the morning, I help lead her into birds position she bounced around the area then pointed it at about 20 ft. Very steady. I walked around her and she held. Basically moved around her waiting for her to move and she finally did...I launched the bird.

So..after all that..when she goes on point and is steady, what do you do? Wait for her to break, pick the dog up off point and move her or flush the bird? How long do you let then stay on point?

Appreciate any feedback.

Thanks!

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:11 pm

What is the hurry, let her stand there and smell and point. Make the point is the reward and you will have a better dog. With a launcher, you have the control. Stand behind the pup and toss a pebble close to the bird and watch the pup stiffen up.

We all get in to big a hurry to make the bird fly, let the dog stand there and point it for a bit.

That is very good for the pup and will teach you to be more patient as well.

Pepper

gdog · Post by **gdog** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:33 pm

Wasnt in a hurry to get her off point. Just wasn't sure if you should always flush the bird for the dog or pick her up off point(?)

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:54 pm

DOnt pick her up alway launch the bird. But do as pepper says make her wait. You could even add a starter pistol on there when you flush the bird if you wanted.

GRIFF MAN · Post by **GRIFF MAN** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:41 am

What is the hurry, let her stand there and smell and point.

I agree that pup is 4 months old. You don't want to put to much pressure on that pup. I dont' intro birds til pups are atleast 6 months. If they are younger and find them on there own great, but I don't put birds down for the younger pups.

If you do this again put down 1 or 2 birds and be done. Dont' over do it with so many birds. And I wouldn't be shooting anything yet. Let that pup develop a bit more before you do to much.

It's hard not to get out there and do things but have some patients and let the pup be a pup.

Griff

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:47 am

Ryan wrote:You could even add a starter pistol on there when you flush the bird if you wanted.

Heaven's to Betsy! Don't, don't, don't...did I say don't...fire a starter pistol over a 4 month old pup pointing! You will end up with a bird and gun shy pup.

Take your time and introduce the pup to gunfire the right way. There are lots of posts here, search the archives. They basic plan is to have a distraction that they pup is wild about and to do it from a distance.

Best,

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:45 am

Greg Jennings wrote:
Ryan wrote:You could even add a starter pistol on there when you flush the bird if you wanted.
Heaven's to Betsy! Don't, don't, don't...did I say don't...fire a starter pistol over a 4 month old pup pointing! You will end up with a bird and gun shy pup.

Take your time and introduce the pup to gunfire the right way. There are lots of posts here, search the archives. They basic plan is to have a distraction that they pup is wild about and to do it from a distance.

Best,

wouldn't the pup chasing the bird be a distraction enough? i dont think he meant to fire while the dog is pointing but after the flush hopefully while the dog is chasing

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:37 am

Chasing a bird is best. Firing the blank pistol on flush with dog nearby fails the "at a distance" part.

I'd do it in a couple of months. I'd do it chasing a bird. I do it at a distance (over 50 yards). I'd use the quietest .22 crimps that I could find. I'd fire the pistol behind my back and down. I.e., away from the pup.

Best,

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:40 pm

In that long a time it have seen lots of people do the same thing with the young dog. IMO it seems that one who is 6 months old to behave like one 18 months and one that is 2 to behave like it is 4.

Rome was not built in a day and very good dogs were not either.

Let the pup be a pup, like you and I it will have its whole like to "act" like a big dog.

Lots of repetition but not 5 times a day.

Pepper

gdog · Post by **gdog** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:42 pm

Thanks for the replies. I will let the dog flush the birds. Wasn't even thinking about bringing a gun into the training yet, so no worries there.

Roxy is having fun being a pup and we are letting her be one. I will make the next outing with birds a bit shorter for sure.

Take care!

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:14 pm

rooste32 wrote:I will let the dog flush the birds.

You should still be flushing the birds. This should teach pup that she has to remain still while you put the birds in the air. If you let her do it, when it comes to wild birds about the time you get even wiht her she will bust in and punch the birds out possibly even before you get within gun range. Not something you want to teach IMO.

gdog · Post by **gdog** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:18 pm

Ah...my fingers and brain were not working together. Meant to say "I" will flush the birds.

Thanks!

snips · Post by **snips** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:54 pm

Varying opinions on this. I let pups point and flush their own birds, only if the birds are good ones that will get up and fly good. It teaches the pup how close he can get before he makes the bird fly. Also teaches him he can`t catch them and makes him point......If the birds are not that strong I will let pup drag a CC and after he points I will get the end of the cord to keep him from running a bird down. Does not hurt to catch an occasional bird, just not too many.

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:58 pm

Chasing a bird is best why ? Im new thanks

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:03 pm

Builds up the drive in the dog, Breaking a dog too early causes problems later, and when introducing the gunit is easier when the dog has chasing the bird on his mind than staying put.

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:05 pm

Breaking a dog too early causes problems later like what ?

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:06 pm

Dog will shut down loose his drive. He may point but wont point with the intensity or drive that he used too.

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:13 pm

well it just seams that if you let them chases now and brak them of it later that would slow them down too . you know if you teach something its hard to unteach it. but thats why im asking I just like to understand what im doing and why thanks

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:15 pm

I cant answer that one but if you stop in chat there a few meber in there now that could and it would be easier than on the forum.

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:28 pm

when do you know to stop leting them chases birds ?

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:30 pm

depends on when the dog is ready but usually 1.5 2 years

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:40 pm

yes, if you let them chase and break them later, it will bring them in. but you expect and hope that once they are through the breaking process, and start to gain confidence, that they will be back out running again. the purpose of letting them run early is to get them really excited about birds and hunting birds, so if you have any issues in breaking them, that birdiness will always bring them back.

and as for when, there really is not a set time. it is more a matter that you will know when it is time, when they are getting to be a real handful for your tastes, and you start telling yourself it is time to put a cork in it. that is the time. usually between a year and two years, but if a dog gets a very good early start, you can start to break them younger.

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:12 am

I like to keep pups on good flying birds, but if the time comes that they realize they can run them down and catch them, it is time to pull them off birds. Pups tend to get to this stage around 7-9 months old depending on how many birds they see. When pups come in for puppy start here I will run them on leftover birds until I see them get to this stage, then I might expose them to pigeon launchers before they go home and let them know they can`t catch birds. Then I like them to just mature some before formally steadying up.

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:25 am

Listen to Snips she knows whats she's doing. I also like the idea of a letting a pup flush the bird for the same reason. When a pup figures out he can't catch the bird is when you have an honest bird dog. When people never let the pup figure this out then the dog will sometimes be a creeper or even start taking birds out after being trained.

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:34 pm

My opinion is it depends on the puppy.

If the puppy is very keen and chases the birds a long way then you should train on a rope and control pup from chasing just don't do it in
too stern a manner for a young pup as you must keep the pup enjoying its bird encounters.

If pup is slow at developing enthusiasm on birds then let it chase, because this excitement is remembered and creats the enthusiasm.

Once you can see enthusiasm is there in the pup, then you can begin to do some carefull steadiness training.

They usually soon work out high flying birds are a waste of time to chase, but rabbits and hare can be a right pain.

Gun Dog Forum

Releasing birds-dog points...then what?

Releasing birds-dog points...then what?

point

40 years later