Well-known - and respected - retriever trainers

[Scott Linden]

Time to introduce my Real Bird Bumper to the retriever world. I'd like some well-known and respected retriever trainers to try the product but am clueless (on this, and many other subjects for that matter). Besides our own Evan G., can you provide some names? Thanks.

[Cajun Casey]

Sharon Potter and Vickie Lamb.

[Coveyrise64]

Most of the ones I know use dead birds. Throw them in the freezer at night and ready to go the next morning......

cr

[Hattrick]

Pat Nolan

[tailcrackin]

Dave Ward, outta Theresa wisc.......Andy Attar, Paul Sletton out of sheboygan wisc...I think. Worked with Dave right before he went to field trial retrievers, he was still working the hunt test dog when we worked together. I liked his way of thinking, he was more on teaching then force. I guess it showed a little bit, he won the National couple years later. Jim Van Egan also is good one. He is wisc also, James Brengoes out of south Ga. There are alot of good retriever guys. I like them all, and have had alot of fun over the years together. J Paul Jackson, outta Dyersburg Tenn. I dont know, that is a few of them that I worked for and around for a number of years learning the dogs. Thanks Jonesy

[lvrgsp]

Mike Lardy......

[crackerd]

Scott, are you coming out with a snow-goose version of it? - retriever trainers always use white when training with "objects" and real birds when training with birds (which is most of the time).

Chuckled at a couple of the names cited above as well-known retriever trainers - but it's all relative. You could also contact Tom Dokken...

Or to show off your artistry - and see how it compares to his - there's Tom Quinn: http://www.gundogsupply.com/wr-tq.html

MG

[gonehuntin']

Never been much on Canvas bumpers, they pick up too much scent, the unwanted kind.

I'd also want to see them made in white as well as orange.

I would worry also about the durability of them, both the wing and the stitching.

[nikegundog]

Dave Rorem
Danny Farmer
Bill Sargenti
Jerry Patopea
Yes well known is relative, I'm sure that 99.9% of the country has never hear of any of them including Evan and Lardy

[Scott Linden]

[quote="crackerd"]Scott, are you coming out with a snow-goose version of it? - retriever trainers always use white when training with "objects" and real birds when training with birds (which is most of the time).

I've had a few requests for a white (and white and black) version and may go there some time. The original problem I was trying to solve was getting primarily upland dogs to become better retrievers faster ... something that doesn't come quite as easily as for retrievers. So, that's the color rationale. It also really pops on a retailer's display.

[Scott Linden]

I would worry also about the durability of them, both the wing and the stitching.[/quote]

While it's not a chew toy, it's been tested. A lot. Example: I put a Dokken Dead Fowl pheasant and my Real Bird Bumper in the puppy pen for six months. Mine survived just fine, thank you. Dead Fowl didn't have much "meat" left on its bones. I've sold close to 400 and got the first return day before yesterday.

[Cajun Casey]

Have you considered hooking up with HRC?

[Scott Linden]

Have you considered hooking up with HRC?

Cajun, i've been leaving phone messages and sending emails to this group's president for quite a while to invite them into my TruckVault Cares fundraising initiative and can't even get the courtesy of a return call. i've given up trying to reach HRC. If they don't want my money, nor the national publicity i can give them on my show, that's fine.

[lvrgsp]

Dave Rorem
Danny Farmer
Bill Sargenti
Jerry Patopea
Yes well known is relative, I'm sure that 99.9% of the country has never hear of any of them including Evan and Lardy

I disagree 99.9%........I am not even a retriever guy and I know Lardy and Graham..............I think alot of folks know them.....especially the retriever folks..
JMO though....

http://www.totalretriever.com/

[crackerd]

Have you considered hooking up with HRC?

Cajun, i've been leaving phone messages and sending emails to this group's president for quite a while to invite them into my TruckVault Cares fundraising initiative and can't even get the courtesy of a return call. i've given up trying to reach HRC. If they don't want my money, nor the national publicity i can give them on my show, that's fine.

Scott, a little insight: The last thing any retriever org. wants is any association or direct affiliation with "rubber ducks." HRC doesn't use flyers (live birds) in their hunt tests, and they've been criticized for that since their motto is something like "By hunters, for hunters" and hunters of course shoot only live birds. But that criticism is nothing like what almost torpedoed another retriever outfit, NAHRA, several years ago because it was forced to stop using flyers for a while and replaced them with Dokkens. An outbreak of avian virus was what took ducks out of the tests, not a unilateral decision, but NAHRA membership dwindled because of "Rubberduckgate" (Dokkens were used for almost an entire season of HTs) and hasn't rebounded to the level it was at before the "scandal."

Meanwhile, HRC has continued to grow but is still nowhere near the numbers that run AKC hunt tests, in which at least one, often two flyer ducks (or pheasants), are mandatory for each dog entered. HRC gasses their birds before a test, by the way, then "shoots" them by having them thrown dead.

Also, as for why your calls haven't been returned, HRC's got a lot of shilling going on for Avery, which would be one of your competitors (albeit also makers of the world's worst retriever training equipment, particularly their bumpers which are too hard, too brittle and oh too pricey to boot). I don't know what money you're alluding to in wanting to give away, but you can probably find a recipient in the folks who put on "British-style" retriever field trials in the US, if those "trials" are still extant. Their version of hunt tests, called a working test, uses only "dummies" - of which your DFT (dead fowl trainer) would be ideal.

MG

[Scott Linden]

Scott, a little insight: The last thing any retriever org. wants is any association or direct affiliation with "rubber ducks." HRC doesn't use flyers (live birds) in their hunt tests, and they've been criticized for that since their motto is something like "By hunters, for hunters" and hunters of course shoot only live birds. But that criticism is nothing like what almost torpedoed another retriever outfit, NAHRA, several years ago because it was forced to stop using flyers for a while and replaced them with Dokkens. An outbreak of avian virus was what took ducks out of the tests, not a unilateral decision, but NAHRA membership dwindled because of "Rubberduckgate" (Dokkens were used for almost an entire season of HTs) and hasn't rebounded to the level it was at before the "scandal."

Meanwhile, HRC has continued to grow but is still nowhere near the numbers that run AKC hunt tests, in which at least one, often two flyer ducks (or pheasants), are mandatory for each dog entered. HRC gasses their birds before a test, by the way, then "shoots" them by having them thrown dead.

Also, as for why your calls haven't been returned, HRC's got a lot of shilling going on for Avery, which would be one of your competitors (albeit also makers of the world's worst retriever training equipment, particularly their bumpers which are too hard, too brittle and oh too pricey to boot). I don't know what money you're alluding to in wanting to give away, but you can probably find a recipient in the folks who put on "British-style" retriever field trials in the US, if those "trials" are still extant. Their version of hunt tests, called a working test, uses only "dummies" - of which your DFT (dead fowl trainer) would be ideal.

MG[/quote]

Thanks for the insights. I would love to have a retriever group in our www.truckvaultcares.com fundraiser, and of course having all the groups buy Real Bird Bumpers for their trials, too! (got a full line going now: www.realbirdbumper.com, if anyone is interested).

[crackerd]

Wishing you the best in this endeavor, Scott - though as it's unlikely you'll pair up with a retriever organization supporting your dead fowl trainer, how 'bout partnering with another training equipment manufacturer on the marketing? One of the more prominent out your way is Neuman & Bennetts http://www.decoy1.com/, which to my knowledge offers no canvas "bird dummies" but is probably the biggest name in bumpers favored by pro trainers.

MG

[mountaindogs]

Have you considered marketing through or to NAVHDA folks?