Before or after?

[BHC]

Im get getting my first pup in a few weeks and been doing some research. In my first book I bought I am now at the formal obedience section( bout halfway, little less). So far it say socialization build confidence, teach sit as early as you like and keep retrieves short and only a couple at a time, play a little wing on a string, introduce dog to birds, teach pup to use nose. Then at about four months start teaching heel, here, whoa, and stay...

I'm a first timer tryin to learn a lot in a small amount of time, how accurate/good does this sound to y'all? The for months is a round about age, in their experience it says...

[Trekmoor]

I.M.O. the author of the book you are reading is erring on the side of "safety." He/she is trying to ensure that a beginner handler does not end up with an uncontrollable older dog. It is up to you but personally I would not start all that obedience stuff at 4 months old and maybe not even at 6 months old. If your pup turns out to be on the "soft" side you could inhibit it as a hunter and perhaps as a retriever too.

This will be your own dog and you do not need to train to a timetable. You are not a pro-trainer and no client is going to be pressurising you for results within a specific time. Make use of this and make haste slowly !

Bill T.

[sniperjon]

I have a soft dog and I did started with sit, no, and down but all in the house with treats. Outside lots of wing and play time. Let your pup explore as he or she grows the basic things you teach them when they are young will help with more advanced traing later

[jcbuttry8]

The wing on a string is really only for you. You get to see your puppy point. See him point then put it away. Take that puppy out in the field as much as possible. He will learn more in the field then with a wing on a string. I would much rather see my pup point a butterfly she ran into then a wing I tied up. As for formal training, leave it for later. I started with house manners, because everyone knows you must have manners in momma's house. Doesn't even matter which momma it may be.

Go find a dog club near you and pay the membership, no matter how much. My pup is now13 mos old and believe me, I wouldn't be anywhere close to where I am now without the help of seeing it up close and personal and having plenty of birds at my disposal to play with. You will need to make some friends in your area that can help bring you along. The books alone will make it a difficult task.

The best advise that I have received since I started on here was take your time and take it slow!!! You have that pups whole life to get it trained, and at the end of it all you will have no doubt who actually trained who.

Good luck and Keep it fun, for both of you,

Joe

[RoostersMom]

"Sit" it totally optional unless you have a retriever (lab, chessie). As for the wing on a string - that is a big no-no. All you do is feel good about your dog possibly pointing it and you get the bonus of teaching your dog to sight point. Not the way you want to go with a pup. Wing on a string is NOT a training tool, it can be overused (like if you use it more than once in the pup's life) and will teach nothing but bad habits. The latest gundog magazine has a short section on using the wing (or why you shouldn't use it).

My pups know "here" and start to learn "whoa" first off, but we don't do any formal obedience really until we are about at 6 months - then formalize the "here". Whoa breaking at about a year for us. When they're little, we do a ton of socialization and lots and lots of contacts with pigeons or wild birds. Puppy happy time walks almost every day. Lots of interaction with other dogs (make sure yours is fully vaccinated first or only contact with known dogs until their puppy series have been completed). Water introduction. Short retrieves.

[EvanG]

Im get getting my first pup in a few weeks and been doing some research. In my first book I bought I am now at the formal obedience section( bout halfway, little less). So far it say socialization build confidence, teach sit as early as you like and keep retrieves short and only a couple at a time, play a little wing on a string, introduce dog to birds, teach pup to use nose. Then at about four months start teaching heel, here, whoa, and stay...

I'm a first timer tryin to learn a lot in a small amount of time, how accurate/good does this sound to y'all? The for months is a round about age, in their experience it says...

So, is this a retriever pup, or versatile? Other?

EvanG

[ultracarry]

GSP is in his profile...

[crackerd]

"Wing on a string" was the tip-off, Evan.

But let's incorporate your "improving (retriever) hunt tests" thread elsewhere and the formal obedience training suggested here, along with rooster'smom's comment that "'Sit'" is totally optional unless you have a retriever (lab, chessie)" - and ask, now that the versatile breeds (all of them pointing dogs by classification) are eligible for AKC retriever hunt tests, are they required to sit at the line for marks or before being sent on a blind in steadiness, or is there a looser interpretation that allows them a standing start?

MG

[BHC]

He's a GSP and versatile: upland, waterfowl, shed antlers.. What is the best method for working on whoa with young pups??...

[Francois P vd Walt]

"Wing on a string" was the tip-off, Evan.

But let's incorporate your "improving (retriever) hunt tests" thread elsewhere and the formal obedience training suggested here, along with rooster'smom's comment that "'Sit'" is totally optional unless you have a retriever (lab, chessie)" - and ask, now that the versatile breeds (all of them pointing dogs by classification) are eligible for AKC retriever hunt tests, are they required to sit at the line for marks or before being sent on a blind in steadiness, or is there a looser interpretation that allows them a standing start?

MG

Having mastered the sit command it very usefull, you can stop your dog anywere at any time before he gets into trouble.
Far easier to sit him down when he gets to the birds wait for you to get there then work the birds with close supervision, this also helps for corrections cause you THERE. Also when something goes wrong your correction will be for ignoring the sit command nothing negative on tne birds, the bonus will be when he runs into birds when scenting is bad he wil SIT hence you still can get some of tnebremaoning birds.

The sit command trained well helps in all hunting, when the get out of the truck, in a blind etc sit is sit not stay or wait he should sit and not move untill another command is given.

[RayGubernat]

He's a GSP and versatile: upland, waterfowl, shed antlers.. What is the best method for working on whoa with young pups??...

The best method I have found to introduce the whoa concept to a young dog are heel/whoa drills after the manner of Paul Long in his book "Training Pointing Dogs"...with one modification....

The method in the book uses a regular checkcord with a loop created by passing the cord through the snap. I do the heel/whoa drills with a wonder lead(actually I use a pigging string because it is cheaper).

Been doing it that way for a loooong time. Short sessions(5 minutes) morning and evening or more often if you can. I have started on dogs as young as 12-14 weeks of age. Just keep it short, keep it fun. Start with play and finish with play.

RayG

[Trekmoor]

Having mastered the sit command it very usefull, you can stop your dog anywere at any time before he gets into trouble.
Far easier to sit him down when he gets to the birds wait for you to get there then work the birds with close supervision, this also helps for corrections cause you THERE.

Sorry but maybe I'm reading this wrong ? Do you really train your pointing dogs to sit whenever they find/ point birds ? I agree the sit command to both whistle and to voice is often a very useful one but surely not when a dog is pointing ? I don't use check cords or any other training aid to get my dogs to point and to hold that point but they all still do if they get enough work on birds. About the last thing I'd want is for my dogs to sit as they were pointing. Even if I could see the dog sitting, a sitting dog has no "style."

Bill T.

[cmc274]

Besides house manners, a source of birds and a few different pieces of land to run your dog on would be the extent of things I would be worried about through about 6 months or so. You can teach it all kinds of formal training later in life, but this is the time to worry about letting a dog figure out how to hunt, find birds, and try to get them pointed. The dog will naturally want to go with you. A little checkcord work to teach some handling and recall should probably happen, but gun intro and where I am going to find wild birds in hunting season would be next on my list.

I have been around a few groups of folks that may have looked down on me for not teaching a lot of obedience, but they sure did like what they saw when I cut her loose.

[Francois P vd Walt]

Having mastered the sit command it very usefull, you can stop your dog anywere at any time before he gets into trouble.
Far easier to sit him down when he gets to the birds wait for you to get there then work the birds with close supervision, this also helps for corrections cause you THERE.

Sorry but maybe I'm reading this wrong ? Do you really train your pointing dogs to sit whenever they find/ point birds ? I agree the sit command to both whistle and to voice is often a very useful one but surely not when a dog is pointing ? I don't use check cords or any other training aid to get my dogs to point and to hold that point but they all still do if they get enough work on birds. About the last thing I'd want is for my dogs to sit as they were pointing. Even if I could see the dog sitting, a sitting dog has no "style."

Bill T.

They don't sit when pointing birds, just if they run into them by suprise if scenting is bad.