setup for training a dog to track a bird

[ibbowhunting]

i looking for input on training a young dog to track a bird for a Navhda NA test. i have read a few articles about training a track but was wondering if the forum has any input? i have live pigeons and dead quail to work with. just looking for a process or setup that i will help the dog on the tracking part

[Doc E]

Pluck a few feathers for the starting place to show the dog what scent it is to be trailing.
Drag the bird on a long cord hooked to a long pole (keeps the human scent away from the trail)
Start with short straight trails
Go to longer straight trails
Go to trails with one curve in it
Go to trails with one 90 degree turn
Go to trails with two 90 degree turns (like a square "U")
Never run the same trail twice
Drag the bird in one direction only
Always be aware of wind direction and use it to your advantage (dog's disadvantage)



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[steamer]

we use hot dogs . i like to break them into thirds and do three tracks each training session . start short tracks in the yard . rub the hot dog on the ground to lay a trail . keep it short and straight to start with . dont let the dog see you lay the trail. lead your dog into the start of the trail hold the leash close to the collar,get the dogs nose down and let it pick up the trail command track and tap the ground next to the trail walk along with the dog the whole time tapping the ground and commanding track. let the dog find its reward at the end. move to a different area and repeat. start making the trails longer and start putting some turns in the trail. i like to hide the hot dog at the end as the dog progresses. hide it in the grass or weeds i think this makes the dog use its nose and not find it by sight. as i see the dog keep its nose on the track i start sending him on his own . start short and work your way out. i use an old nylon strap as a flat lead as he starts the track i stop and let the lead slip from under his collar and head out on the track. if he has trouble staying on track and starts to search i back up to staying with him giving the track command tapping the ground. when i see he does the track with his nose down the whole time i start with a dead bird then move to a live bird. the whole point of this is to teach the dog to track on command and keep his nose down and on the trail. you dont want him to break off and start searching . this was taught to me by a friend who has trained several dogs one to a vc. it does work .at our na test last year i saw several dogs trained this way and all of them nailed it on the tracking part of the test. good luck and have fun

[larue]

omg,dead birds then hot dogs for a n/a track.
Go get yourself some young pheasants,find a field with moderate cover.
let your pup watch you release a phez,and let him watch it run away.
Release your pup,he will run to where he saw the phez go,and start looking for it.
He will naturally start tracking it.
If he tracks it well,dont let him see the next one you release,you will have to judge how he is doing on the track to figure out how much he needs to see the bird.
One more thing,the more he tracks often shortens his pointing,so judge his pointing with his tracking and seek a balance.

[steamer]

no its hot dogs then dead birds. your dog has to track a dead duck drag and retrieve it in the upt and ut test so im not sure why it is a big deal to train with a dead bird. all your doing with the hot dog is teaching the dog to track on command. it doesnt matter what its tracking as long as it learns that when given the track command it follows the scent trail till it finds what its looking for. that could be a hot dog,a dead duck, or a live pheasant. we do use a few live pheasants once the dog knows the command but at 10 to 15 dollars a bird im not using them much. i also dont like to use to many pen raised pheasants because i dont want my dog to learn its ok to take out a bird. a pheasant walking around in front of a young dog is too tempting. even if it points the bird most young dogs i have seen are not steady and will take the bird out . do this too much and now you have created a problem. anyway the op asked for ways to start a dog on tracking and i gave them a way that i have seen work. i have seen others post they dont train for the na test and i dont believe in this . if im putting my dog ,my time, and my money out there i want to see the dog do well. op good luck on your test . try to start your test track on the down wind side of the feather pile.

[ibbowhunting]

omg,dead birds then hot dogs for a n/a track.
Go get yourself some young pheasants,find a field with moderate cover.
let your pup watch you release a phez,and let him watch it run away.
Release your pup,he will run to where he saw the phez go,and start looking for it.
He will naturally start tracking it.
If he tracks it well,dont let him see the next one you release,you will have to judge how he is doing on the track to figure out how much he needs to see the bird.
One more thing,the more he tracks often shortens his pointing,so judge his pointing with his tracking and seek a balance.

i don't understand this last part , more input please

[ACooper]

How old is the pup? How much has he been free run? How is his search?

[ibbowhunting]

How old is the pup? How much has he been free run? How is his search?

she is nine months old her search in my opinion is good,but i'm just a newbie,she been on pigeons for the last couple of months one or two daily or every other day, she swims atleast once a week she love to swim its just getting her in the water at first, once she wet she jumps right in. the only trouble i have with her is trying to get her to hold point,she breaks after 30 seconds or so. her recall is fair, but i just worry that we will fall apart on test day, just trying to keep her hunting,swimming or tracking daily up until the test. she ran a large field this evening at first she put on her wheels on and ranged out a long ways then she seem to range a litte closer, this was our first time on a large field

[larue]

The n/a track can create two issues,a dog who drops his head which often will cause a dog to bump birds,and if the pup is tracking and then catching birds,it can shorten a pups pointing.
When i was training for the n/a I would show the pup enough tracks so that he knew what it was,then I would quit doing them.
The n/a track is really a crap shoot, as weather,cover and the birds will have a huge impact on it.
I have always considered the n/a track as the hardest part of any navhda test as it is just so variable.

[Trekmoor]

Sorry to butt in to this thread but I don't really understand it. I never train a dog to track wounded birds, I just give them the opportunities to learn for themselves how to do it.
I don't make tracks using dead birds because dead birds don't run and I don't release live birds to be tracked because unshot birds carry no blood scent, no burnt powder scent and maybe no shock/stress scent either.

My question is this. Is this test to assess if a dog will track an unshot bird ? If the test is meant to simulate how well a dog can track a shot bird - a runner - doesn't using unshot birds to practice on simply encourage a dog to follow the first track it hits on in a real shooting situation ? The dog might follow the track of an unshot pheasant for example and therefor give a real runner time to escape ?

Bill T.

[snips]

I like to drag a dead bird and plant a live bird at the end. Keeps the pointing strong.

[larue]

the n/a track is a test to judge a pups ability to focus on a track.instead of breaking into a search.
I will never understand why you would not use the real item that you will be tested on,but use whatever works.
I like to train the track when the pup is 4 months or so along,and use young pheasants who can fly,but not real far.
You can usually get these cheap.
a young pup,medium cover,and young pheasants usually work very well.
I use a 6 foot brushhog on a tractor to get the cover right!

[ACooper]

I like to have a pasture that I can mow a couple of strips in. One strip straight and 60 or so yds or so long, the other 70-80 or so yards with a couple of 90 degree turns.

I started with a fresh killed pigeon for the first several drags, pull a bunch of feathers place them at the start then drag the bird down the mowed strip gradually making them further over several days. I also keep the pup on a check cord to gently bring them back on task if they break out to search, and to reel them in with the "prize" at the end of the track.

I use a dead bird because I want to make sure the pup gets rewarded at the end.

After the pup can "track" down the mowed path with the turns, I change over to using live pheasants.

IMO you really only need to put the pup on 3-4 live bird tracks prior to the test.