New to training and e-collars

[GTS]

I've got a an almost 17 month old Lab I'm training for duck hunting this season. I've been working with her through the summer when I'm at my parents where they have a couple acres (I live in a condo with no room) and just recently got started on throwing 3 hanging neck ducks for her to retrieve, one to the left, one to the right, and one straight out so that she can start learning the left, right, and back commands. She's starting to get them down but she's also seeming to loose interest and starts sniffing around, eating grass, etc. The last couple of days she's started getting within about 5 yards and dropping the bird, and not bringing it all the way to me.

I picked up an e-collar to try to keep her focused and NOT eating grass etc. I've been trying to find some information on the best way to train with this collar but not coming up with a ton of info for training for retrieving using the e-collar. Any pointers of dos and don'ts you guys could give? Or point me in a good direction of somewhere on the net with some good info or videos? I want to get her attention, but I don't want to ruin her at the same time.

I kind of figured stimulate her when she's not focusing and starting to eat grass etc, but not sure the best way to go about it so that she knows what she's doing is wrong and stays focused on me. It seems like she was doing great and progressing very well for quite some time and now I've all of a sudden hit a wall and now she's falling off.

Thanks for your guys' help!
Geoff

[MNspanielguy]

Try real birds. Start with frozen ones. That might keep the interest up. I don't think that you can shock "hunt" into a dog.

[Doc E]

Whoa there man ! ! !
You're getting the cart waaay before the horse.
Point one : This dog IS NOT going to be ready to hunt ducks this year.
Point two : You need to get on a Modern Sequential training program.
DO NOT use an ecollar until you learn how to use it. the ecollar is NOT a training device. it is used to reinforce commands that the dog already knows.
Why do you not want your dog to eat grass ?

The dog has "fallen off" because you are not training sequentially. You have to learn to add and subtract before you can learn to multiply and divide.

Until you get on a good program, all you are doing is screwing the dog up. If you keep doing what you are doing you are going to ruin a good dog.



.

[bumper52]

Geoff, please, please put away the e-collar for now. Get with a proven training program. I recommend Smartwork by Evan Graham. A program will take take you through very logical, sequential steps from A to Z to properly, efficiently, and humanely train your dog. The program will have a "collar conditioning" program, but this is preceded by several steps (namely obedience). For now just have fun with your dog...instill his retrieving desire.....if he loses interest, cut back on the number of retrieves...make it a fun and games....keep him wanting more. Work on basic obedience (sit, here, heel, kennel). But get with a proven program.....will be the best money you've ever spent (and a lot of fun, as well)

[gonehuntin']

Whoa there man ! ! !
You're getting the cart waaay before the horse.
Point one : This dog IS NOT going to be ready to hunt ducks this year.
Point two : You need to get on a Modern Sequential training program.
DO NOT use an ecollar until you learn how to use it. the ecollar is NOT a training device. it is used to reinforce commands that the dog already knows.
Why do you not want your dog to eat grass ?

The dog has "fallen off" because you are not training sequentially. You have to learn to add and subtract before you can learn to multiply and divide.

Until you get on a good program, all you are doing is screwing the dog up. If you keep doing what you are doing you are going to ruin a good dog.

+1. Follow a good program. Evan Graham or Fowl Dawgs.



.

[GTS]

I've been working with her for some time now. The sit, stay, come commands are definitely instilled already. I've been following Richard A. Wolters book Game Dog and I have one of his Gun Dog videos on training retirevers and have been going step by step through his program. It just seems recently she's almost regressed a bit.

I started with the sit, stay, come commands and got those down. Got one training duck and started her on retrieving that. Then progressed to two. Got her marking and going for the one I want rather than just the last one thrown. Then I just recently moved onto 3 doing what Wolters calls "playing Baseball" where I throw one to the left, one straight out, and one to the right and she's been getting the directions down quite well. The only one she's been a little rocky on once in awhile is the straight back one, but she's getting it down well too.

I haven't used the collar at all yet other than to just put it on her so she gets used to it, and I've been trying to so some research on the best way to use it. She definitely knows the commands I'm giving her as she's done them plenty in the past. So I am using it as a reinforcement tool. Not trying to train her on new commands. I've been a little apprehensive to use it just because I want to make sure I'm doing it right. And I'm not the type to crank it all the way up and nail her with it just because she's not doing what I want. I love this dog and I just want enough stimulation so she knows she needs to follow commands.

It's not so much that I don't want her eating grass as I don't want her to run up to the duck, and then just turn and eat grass and not retrieve the duck. My thought was to just give a small stimulation so she knows she's not supposed to do that.

Where would one find frozen birds?

Hopefully this explains a bit better where I'm at in my training. I do plan to get her out this season but I don't expect her to do steller. I mainly just want her to get used to what's going on, the gun shots(I have taken her shooting a couple times), the excitement, the real ducks, etc.

[Adawg762]

Whoa there man ! ! !
You're getting the cart waaay before the horse.
Point one : This dog IS NOT going to be ready to hunt ducks this year.
Point two : You need to get on a Modern Sequential training program.
DO NOT use an ecollar until you learn how to use it. the ecollar is NOT a training device. it is used to reinforce commands that the dog already knows.
Why do you not want your dog to eat grass ?

The dog has "fallen off" because you are not training sequentially. You have to learn to add and subtract before you can learn to multiply and divide.

Until you get on a good program, all you are doing is screwing the dog up. If you keep doing what you are doing you are going to ruin a good dog.



.

I agree with this I have dogs that hunt with the collars but you must teach the dogs all the commands and he/she must know them well before you can introduce the collar, it is a great reinforcement device and attention getter but not too much more. I also agree with the reason your dog has fallen off it does take quite a lot of work when dealing with any kind of gun dog and about 15 minutes everyday of strict training (In my personal opinion) will do just fine but you have to stick with it because not only does it need to be strict for the dog but strict for you as well. Yes stick with a good program and once you know for sure that the dog has the ON THE LEAD part down then you can see about moving to the collar but just take your time and it will come.

[Sharon]

Whoa there man ! ! !
You're getting the cart waaay before the horse.
Point one : This dog IS NOT going to be ready to hunt ducks this year.
Point two : You need to get on a Modern Sequential training program.
DO NOT use an ecollar until you learn how to use it. the ecollar is NOT a training device. it is used to reinforce commands that the dog already knows.
Why do you not want your dog to eat grass ?

The dog has "fallen off" because you are not training sequentially. You have to learn to add and subtract before you can learn to multiply and divide.

Until you get on a good program, all you are doing is screwing the dog up. If you keep doing what you are doing you are going to ruin a good dog.

+1. Follow a good program. Evan Graham or Fowl Dawgs.

.................................................

Well said.



.

[GTS]

OK so everyone is saying no no no don't use the e-collar. Wait until you have a training program down and she's got the commands down solid and use it for reinforcement.

As I said in my second post I do have a training program I'm using and she does have the commands down. She's just lazy with them sometimes. Then after my last post I get more replies with people quiting posts previous to my last post. Were the last two posts after mine not reading through to my last post? Now that she does clearly have the commands down and I have been using a proven training program would this not be the time to start reinforcement with the e-collar?

[duckn66]

The e-collar is not necessary to have a good gun dog. If it were me I would put that e-collar in the closet and forget about it for now or at least until you know darn sure how to use it. I use e-collars but only as of recent and I have had some "bleep" good gun dogs without them ever having one on them.

Before I throw multiple retrieves for her I would make sure she is sailing out and back in on singles out to 100 yrd or so. This will require the use of a bird boy and some land with decent grass on it. Make her just an absolute retrieving crazed dog. Don't worry about multiple retrieves just yet. Move her singles further and further out. Then when she is good out to 100yrds or so you can switch to doubles, again use bird boys and throw one way to the right and the other waaaay to the left so she isn't tempted to switch.

After she is sailing out to 100 yrd and coming back in with the dummy you can start working on just the hold command. Force fetch would be best but if your not framiliar with it then I wouldn't do it. Just work on hold. This will get most dogs to deliver to hand. Take a week and just work on hold for 15 minutes a day.

Make training sessions short and always leave her wanting more at the end of it. This will make for an excited retriever everytime out.

[4dabirds]

Although some people will burn a retriever to the pile I think it's a bad way to create motivation. I think what they are saying is get on a quality training program which maybe they believe you are not. You might want to try a retriever forum. Also check out Evan graham as noted earlier he always seems to be helpful on this site.