e-collar questions

[benelli]

OK, the e-collar I ordered got here yesterday, a Tri-Tronics Sport Combo G3 for my 8-month-old GSP. I just watched the video that came with it and wanted to get some newbie questions out of the way before I mess anything up. I've poked around on this forum enough to know that lots of harm can be done pretty quickly with an e-collar used incorrectly, so I'm definitely planning on taking things a step at a time. Now my questions:

1. Is there any conflict between using the collar for "trashbreaking" while using it for actual training? How do you decide which stim level to use for trashbreaking - just crank it up a few notches from what you use for training? (I don't have anything in mind at the moment that the dog needs to be "broken" of, but I want to have an idea of what to do if the situation arises.)

2. The Tri-Tronics video said to teach the dog sit, then heel, then come with the collar, but I know people on the forum have said not to teach heel right away, because it might make the dog afraid to leave your side. When do you feel comfortable teaching "heel" with a collar?

3. How long do you usually use a dummy collar before starting to train with a real one to avoid making the dog collar-wise? Any other tips at avoiding collar-wise would be appreciated.

4. Short vs. long prongs ... I'm guessing short for a GSP?

5. On the TT video it seemed like they were doing all the training with the momentary stimulation, but one website I was looking at seemed to favor continuous stimulation until the dog obeyed and called it "escape training." Is this just a case where there's more than one way to skin a cat, or is one method better than the other? Or do you use a mix of momentary and continuous (how do you decide which)?

6. The Sport Combo has a "tone" option, which I noticed wasn't on a lot of other models, so I'm guessing it's not 100% necessary. But since it's there, what would be the situations where I'd find that feature useful?

Sorry for all the questions, and I appreciate any advice anyone has. Thanks!

[RoostersMom]

Here's a few of my ideas:



I use it for trashbreaking on the highest setting - only on deer for my dogs.

Enforce "here" with the collar, I don't do sit for quite a while with a pointing breed.

Long prongs - throw the short ones away - they're worthless.

I have the dog wear the collar every time they're out of the kennel ever since they're old enough to wear it (size wise - about 3 or 4 months old). I would have the dog wearing it every day during training sessions and likely start working with the collar itself after about 3 weeks to a month.

[brad27]

Long prongs - throw the short ones away - they're worthless.

I know plenty of people that use TT collars, all with short prongs. Never had a problem.

[magspa]

I use the short ones with my GSP's but i could see how the long prongs would be more consistent. I really like the tone feature as a recall. I started putting the collar on first session and hitting the tone button while giving the "here" command and roping her in with the check cord and praising her. Now all i have to is hit that tone button and they come find me, better than yelling a name or here/come in my opinion. Some people use it as a warning but i dont understand that, if she knows a command, why warn the dog? I've been using continuous, mainly if they sight chase field larks or trail rabbits. When they stop chasing, i stop stim. Other than that i really dont use it, other than if they get stubborn and dont obey "here". After this season i will use it around planted birds/launcher to fine tune honoring, retrieving, etc., just wanted to get the first season under their belts.

[RoostersMom]

Long prongs - throw the short ones away - they're worthless.

I know plenty of people that use TT collars, all with short prongs. Never had a problem.

I have had problems with TT short prongs, on a beagle and a GSP- a trainer once told me to just throw away the short prongs, they're inconsistent - I listened to him and haven't had any issues since then.

[rinker]

1-I have never had any issues using the collar for trash breaking. Turn it up a few notches higher than you normally use and hold it down for a few seconds and do not say a word. Act like it never happened when the dog comes back.

2-I think the commands in the video are examples. I don't teach sit or heal, but you can if you want to. I think if you teach sit and heal early that the dog will later sit or heal when you are trying to teach other things. I'm sure other feel differetly.

3-I have never used a dummy collar. I start turning the collar on and putting it on the dog as soon as they are big enought to wear it. I leave the transmittor in the house. Generally the dog wears the collar every time out for a couple of months or more before they are ever stimulated with it.

4-I have a tritronics collar and I don't recall it coming with two sets of prongs. Maybe it did and I forgot.

5-I think the momentary stimulation mode is useless. You can always tap the button, you don't have to hold it down.

6-My collar has a tone, but I have never used it.

[mountaindogs]

Most people use the tone as mentioned above as a quiet way to command here or quartering. I know some retriever folks that are using is as a "reward marker " to mark correct behaviors. It is an extension of the clicker. And then some just use it to see if the collar is on

[gonehuntin']

1. Is there any conflict between using the collar for "trashbreaking" while using it for actual training?

I think there is. When I'm collar breaking a dog, I would NEVER trash break it at the same time. First get him totally collar broken, then trash break at the HIGHEST setting in the field.

2. The Tri-Tronics video said to teach the dog sit, then heel, then come with the collar, but I know people on the forum have said not to teach heel right away, because it might make the dog afraid to leave your side. When do you feel comfortable teaching "heel" with a collar?

I wouldn't teach sit at first, I'd teach WHOA then add sit when the dog is totally obedience trained. I teach a dog three basic commands to start with the collar: Whoa which teaches a dog to be stationary. HERE which teaches a dog to move toward you. KENNEL which teaches the dog to move away from you. If you teach KENNEL and HEEL together, you won't have a problem.

3. How long do you usually use a dummy collar before starting to train with a real one to avoid making the dog collar-wise? Any other tips at avoiding collar-wise would be appreciated.

From the time the pup is about four months old, they wear the collar when at play, training, free running, whenever they are out of the house. I want the association to be 100% positive. The collar should mean a pleasurable experience. I probably really start "using" it at about 10 months, after the dog is obedience trained and ff'd.

4. Short vs. long prongs ... I'm guessing short for a GSP?

Experiment with the dog. With long hair, use long points. Short hair, short points. I prefer long points and not cinching the collar down hard. If you tighten the collar too much, it can wear the skin away under the points.

5. On the TT video it seemed like they were doing all the training with the momentary stimulation, but one website I was looking at seemed to favor continuous stimulation until the dog obeyed and called it "escape training." Is this just a case where there's more than one way to skin a cat, or is one method better than the other? Or do you use a mix of momentary and continuous (how do you decide which)?

Momentary is safer for the newcomer. Personally I prefer continuous so I can control the duration of the correction. But then, I've been doing this a very long time, about 35 years now.

6. The Sport Combo has a "tone" option, which I noticed wasn't on a lot of other models, so I'm guessing it's not 100% necessary. But since it's there, what would be the situations where I'd find that feature useful?

You can substitute the tone for the whistle and hunt in a more silent mode.

[benelli]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond! I'm sure I'll wind up with another question here and there, but between this forum and reading things online, I think I'm getting a decent idea of what we need to do. (And I watched a couple YouTube videos of what people have trained their dogs to do with e-collars ... I had no idea how useful they could be. Wow.)

[ekoog82]

I second the 1825

[cleanslate]

Go to the website sitmeanssit.com they have lots of videos showing all the things that can be done using an e-collar