Hard mouth

[TXSetter]

I have a 13 month old Eng. setter who on the retrieve will crush the bird and is very reluctant to give it up. In fact, I actually have to check cord her in and physically take the bird from her. Is force fetching or at the very least a conditioned hold, my only option for correcting her hard mouth? Could this be a man made problem, or is it due to her high prey drive? I force fetched my lab last year using the Fowl Dawgs system and he turned out great, could I also use the same system on my setter? I'm open to just about anything.

[Doc E]

Definitely time to FF.
My preference is SmartFetch, by Evan Graham
IF the dog is still possessive after a thorough/complete FF program, you will need to teach "Remote Drop", but don't worry about that until we see what happens after FF.


.

[slistoe]

Soft mouth is hereditary IMO. Hard mouth can be learned. Hard mouth can sometimes be "unlearned". If you have been through one dog with a "system" and it worked for you I wouldn't be changing it.

[slistoe]

I would also work on the dog to make sure that she absolutely understands that she owns/possesses nothing - they are all yours and you will allow her to have them if you want - food, bones, toys, dog treats. They are yours to give and to take away.

[Francois P vd Walt]

Definitely time to FF.
My preference is SmartFetch, by Evan Graham
IF the dog is still possessive after a thorough/complete FF program, you will need to teach "Remote Drop", but don't worry about that until we see what happens after FF.


.

+1 Evan Graham Smart Fetch video will sort it out!

[Hattrick]

A double sided scrub brush will fix it but you have to FF. Good luck

[rapid fire]

I have a 3 year old who is the same. She has always been hard mouthed, but at the end of this season, she completely ignored her come command and proceeded to attempt to eat the bird. She has been on the table now for about 3 weeks and will hold a frozen bird till I tell her give. Will be moving to thawed and fresh birds this week and see how things go. I feel your pain.

[Doc E]

I have a 3 year old who is the same. She has always been hard mouthed, but at the end of this season, she completely ignored her come command and proceeded to attempt to eat the bird. She has been on the table now for about 3 weeks and will hold a frozen bird till I tell her give. Will be moving to thawed and fresh birds this week and see how things go. I feel your pain.

Ignored the "come" command ? What method did you use to teach "come" ? It's the most important command there is !

On the table for 3 weeks now ----- You're using a frozen bird now, but what did you start out "Hold" with ?
What did you use next ?

What the heck kind of training program are you following ?

1. Teach
2. Enforce
3 Reinforce


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[whoadog]

I actually have to check cord her in and physically take the bird from her.

How are getting the bird out of her mouth? Tug of war is a bad idea. When I have one that won't release the bird/bumper, I grab the loose skin that runs from the rear thigh to the belly and pull it until they spit what's in their mouth out. I've heard of the scrub brush technique but have never tried it. I have been using a different kind of "bumper" these days and I'm wondering if it has been contributing to some of the softest mouths I've ever had in pointing breeds. I take an old tube sock and stuff several others in it and finish by tying off the open end. It is the bumper I use for my very young pups to start retrieving play. I have not tried it with a hard-mouthed adult, but, I am wondering now if it might be a good way to get a lot of short repetition retrieves. You could also let the dog carry it around in her mouth without worry so she can "keep" the bird for herself a bit longer. My theory, and it truly is only a theory, is that very little pressure and the teeth go all the way through the socks. The puppy learns it can easily carry with this light pressure and never clamps down. My curiosity is piqued now. I may need to try it on an adult myself!

[Trekmoor]

There could be something in your theory about using only very soft articles as bumpers when training young pups. I use stuffed socks and/or tightly rolled and tied sections of old carpet of suitable size a lot with young pups. I have trained a lot of dogs over the last 40 years and not even one of them was hard mouthed. I have had dogs that became a bit too "game-wise" by about 5-8 years old which began then to give strong runners a fatal nip but those dogs started off O.K.

I do not know any sure-fire cures for hereditary hard mouth which is why I am very careful about which sires and which dams I buy a pup from. I'd much rather the pups breeder did all the work and the worrying for me where the basic instincts are concerned.

Bill T.

[tailcrackin]

PM'd ya Thanks Jonesy

[Phantomfly]

FF is best. Be sure that the dog has ALL of the obedience yard work down pat before using FF. You should not try to PULL a bird from a dog. Reach back and take a pinch of the flank and lift. Push the bird into the mouth instead of pulling.