Advice needed

[Double Shot Banks]

Hello,
As most of you know, banks is great at his 3 handed casting with buckets set up, and even when i set up piles of bumpers. He know the difference between all 3 hand signals successfully. Although when he cant see any bumpers (like when i toss them out ahead of time) he wont run where i cast and he gets confused. Also when i tried walking baseball if he couldn't see the orange bumper he would run to the other one that i had thrown most recently.
I would like him to run until i tell him to sit which ever way i cast, but he wont unless he see's the bumper

I am wondering if i should take a step back and do what he knows and does successfully or is there a trick to getting over this speed hump?

Thanks,
Isaac and Banks

[polmaise]

I am wondering if i should take a step back and do what he knows and does successfully or is there a trick to getting over this speed hump?

Thanks,
Isaac and Banks

you could start with the 3 card trick?

[Double Shot Banks]

you could start with the 3 card trick?

I am not familiar,

[EvanG]

Hello,
As most of you know, banks is great at his 3 handed casting with buckets set up, and even when i set up piles of bumpers. He know the difference between all 3 hand signals successfully. Although when he cant see any bumpers (like when i toss them out ahead of time) he wont run where i cast and he gets confused. Also when i tried walking baseball if he couldn't see the orange bumper he would run to the other one that i had thrown most recently.
I would like him to run until i tell him to sit which ever way i cast, but he wont unless he see's the bumper

I am wondering if i should take a step back and do what he knows and does successfully or is there a trick to getting over this speed hump?

Thanks,
Isaac and Banks

Isaac,

This is why I have suggested following a sequential program. So far I don't see that your dog's prior training has provided a solid foundation for handling work. Working with bumpers your dog cannot see is beyond his skill level right now. Blind retrieves are built sequentially, step by step.

EvanG

[polmaise]

Why is there so many programs?...all sequential.
They are not all wrong! :roll: They are all right!....Right?
when anything goes wrong, the retort would be to revert to the program (rightly so, if you follow the program).
If the program is suitable for all dogs ,then why is there not ''One Program'?...Hmmm?

[Double Shot Banks]

Why is there so many programs?...all sequential.
They are not all wrong! :roll: They are all right!....Right?
when anything goes wrong, the retort would be to revert to the program (rightly so, if you follow the program).
If the program is suitable for all dogs ,then why is there not ''One Program'?...Hmmm?

I suppose you are right, although im not sure if your talking to me or Evan.
I will go back to the program and re-do the steps

Evan:
I understand bumpers he cant see is beyond his still level, that's is my whole entire question. I am not asking how to train this, I am following a program but I am stuck.
I wanted to know what is a good trick/technique to get him on the level of bumpers he cannot see. because he can and does perfect with bumpers he can see. Unless your saying I should work more at what he knows to get the foundation more stable then I understand.

[polmaise]

Aye! well anyway...............3 card trick will sort it ,no matter the program!

[Double Shot Banks]

Aye! well anyway...............3 card trick will sort it ,no matter the program!

Care the explain the 3 card trick? i cant find it anywhere and i am not familiar with it

[polmaise]

google on my pc , threw up hundreds! of your guys :roll: ..each with a program in mind.

[Double Shot Banks]

google on my pc , threw up hundreds! of your guys :roll: ..each with a program in mind.

Unless you mean an accual card trick, that's all I'm getting when i google "3 card trick"

[gonehuntin']

So here's the deal. There are a lot of programs out there but the good and proven ones are ALL based on the same program and that is Rex Carr's. So is Evan's but his is extremely well done and fits the field trialer or the hunter. I've seen most of them and many are good but the Graham program is probable the most thorough, easy to follow, and sequential. He has a lot of CD's to it, but in the long run you pay no more for his complete program.

As with many things in life, you get what you pay for. You want to train your dog but you have to be trained first. Invest the money and buy the total Smart Works program and don't skip any steps.

[polmaise]

So here's the deal. There are a lot of programs out there but the good and proven ones are ALL based on the same program and that is Rex Carr's. So is Evan's but his is extremely well done and fits the field trialer or the hunter. I've seen most of them and many are good but the Graham program is probable the most thorough, easy to follow, and sequential. He has a lot of CD's to it, but in the long run you pay no more for his complete program.

As with many things in life, you get what you pay for. You want to train your dog but you have to be trained first. Invest the money and buy the total Smart Works program and don't skip any steps.

So (just for debate!) does the OP CHANGE PROGRAMMES?..on your advise ? - Just asking-?

He know the difference between all 3 hand signals successfully. Although when he cant see any bumpers (like when i toss them out ahead of time) he wont run where i cast and he gets confused. Also when i tried walking baseball if he couldn't see the orange bumper he would run to the other one that i had thrown most recently.
I would like him to run until i tell him to sit which ever way i cast, but he wont unless he see's the bumper
or is there a trick to getting over this speed hump?

Thanks,
Isaac and Banks

[Double Shot Banks]

So (just for debate!) does the OP CHANGE PROGRAMMES?..on your advise ? - Just asking-?

This is what i think all the time. My dog is 1 year old and all people can tell me is to get a good program...I'm already more than half through my current program, and i didn't ask the question so they could tell me to change, but I'm sure they would not recommend changing at this stage.

So if they aren't telling me the change programs, and aren't answering the question they are telling me how much i screwed up and can't fix it.

[Neil]

Hello,


I am wondering if i should take a step back and do what he knows and does successfully or is there a trick to getting over this speed hump?

Thanks,
Isaac and Banks

Yes, take a step back, and he needs another birthday. Never go faster than the dog can understand. There are no tricks or shortcuts that work reliably for a new trainer.

Neil

[gonehuntin']

Banks, your dog doesn't need another year; I've put a 14 month old dog through a QOA. What or whose program are you following?

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

Aye! well anyway...............3 card trick will sort it ,no matter the program!

Are you suggesting he set three dummies in front of the dog, hide a buscuit under one and then shuffle them around or what?
Your ambiguity could baffle even the most accomplished trainer.
Unless your actually just being a wise guy?

Isaac,

You may want to try introducing a memory bird at this stage. Begin by walking the dog out, drop a dummy or a lock wing pigeon and walk him with him in heel, back to the board. Send him on a short retrieve and gradually increase the distance. Once he's confident in running out to say, 200 yards, start over at 50 yards with 2 dummies. Increase the distance again. Build on this drill until he is running to a pile and reliably picking up all the dummies. When he'll do this you can begin memory blinds. Use the same familiar location each time to start out with. Place the dummy out of view. Send him on the retrieve and build trust and confidence gradually. Eventually he will run out to the familiar location on cue. Just be sure to have his reward in position when you do. Don't break the trust.

I understand your desire to move banks forward, but don't get ahead of yourself. If the dog fails more than 2 times on any part of training, you're expecting too much of him. Remember to break the task down into smaller parts that he can handle. Don't expect the dog to understand concepts. You can never break things down into too small of parts. In fact this is part of what generalizing is about.

I hope this helps and good luck.

Nate

[SpringerDude]

Like Nate said, step back and make each transition easy for the dog to understand.

[ACooper]

If you are following a program, does it not address your current issue?

[mountaindogs]

The basic answer to you q is start to use 1 or 2 orange bumpers mixed in. See how that goes. That will be a start. Then extend the distance to the back pile by walking backwards away from while the dog is going for the first one. Keep doing this and you dog will be going longer than he can see soon enough. But he should remember that the pile is there. This gets him started on going when he doesn't see but not for overs. But that is how several of the programs start the idea.

[Winchey]

google on my pc , threw up hundreds! of your guys :roll: ..each with a program in mind.

Unless you mean an accual card trick, that's all I'm getting when i google "3 card trick"

Add "gundog" to your "3 card trick" query. Tons of hits.

[CDN_Cocker]

It's basically just 3 handed casting.... left and right overs, and back.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

The basic answer to you q is start to use 1 or 2 orange bumpers mixed in. See how that goes. That will be a start. Then extend the distance to the back pile by walking backwards away from while the dog is going for the first one. Keep doing this and you dog will be going longer than he can see soon enough. But he should remember that the pile is there. This gets him started on going when he doesn't see but not for overs. But that is how several of the programs start the idea.

+1