Pointers and Spaniels working together?

[Lastfrontier]

I have only worked with spaniels so far, but when looking for some places to go out, I have a couple pointer people who are interested in going out with my spaniel. I am leery, I was up front, my dog will not honor a point,but they say it doesn't matter because their dog will. They say it will be a good way to work on their dogs, out of curiosity, how would it work. Pointer range much further than a spaniel, and the majority flush. This is our first season and don't feel it is an ideal situation, but never want to turn down an opportunity for more birds.
Hopefully my edit will fix any confusion. My spaniel does retrieve.

[Sharon]

I don't see any benefit for either dog with that plan.I suppose it could help in staunching up the pointer - maybe. It would have to be a very mature pointer to have that plan work out positively.

[Lastfrontier]

It sounded counter intuitive to me, but then they started mentioning how many years they have been training dog and I starter to wonder if I was just that uninformed. My dog isn't wornig on her quartering and scenting, and their dog loses his point and doesn't get to retrieve. Sounds like a lose lose, glad I am not the only one to think so

[Trekmoor]

I very occasionally hunt a vizsla and a cocker at the same time. Unless the cover is very thick and nasty the vizsla has by far the most finds. The cocker can be bad idea too for it will, if given half a chance, go in past the pointing vizsla to flush the game. My cockers recognise a dog on point but they do not honour it's point. Just the opposite, they charge in to make the flush.

Personally, I don't think hunting a pointer and a spaniel at the same time is a good idea.

Bill T.

[jeff shumaker]

I hunt a german shorthair and she is 6 months old. She backs my 7 year old pointer and vise versa. I think if you hunted them together for a few hunts or worked them together before the season. Could be a good idea. All dogs are different. Some pointers do range but I got one that I can keep close or let range when I trail.

[Sharon]

2 well trained pointing breeds hunting together is certainly not a problem- in fact a pleasure.

[SpringerDude]

I totally agree with the comments that the hunting styles are totally different and you are setting yourself up for chaos.

However, I have worked my dogs with pointing breeds. I can "hup" my dogs when a dog goes on point and then leave my dog hupped as we moved in to flush birds and shoot. My dog helped with the retrieving. Also, when I wanted to hunt some cover that the pointing dog missed, then I could hunt it while we worked our way towards the last place we saw the bigger ranging dog. Pointing dog founds birds, flushing dog found birds. fun was had by all.

I have also hunted with a couple different guys that actually handled both dogs, a pointing breed and a flusher at the same time. Dog goes on point in a briar patch or plum thicket, sent the spaniel in to flush, hunter stands out of the brush and shoots bird as it clears cover, spaniel makes the retrieve. Worked quite well.

My opinion: I think it is best if each style of dog is handled by a different handler. I run one spaniel and my buddy runs his pointers. I think it would be hard to handle both styles by myself.

I would think that the pointing breed dog would find birds far enough away from you that you would have time to stop your dog, or heel your dog, or leash your dog, before you get to the "point". You and your hunting partner need to be on the "same page" with how the dogs will be handled during the hunt. Ask your hunting partners what skills they expect your dog to have in order not to upset them during the hunt.

The "plantations" down south have been using cockers to flush birds in front of the pointers for years now. Cockers also get a lot of the retrieving duties.

This style can be a lot of fun when things are kept under control and the chaos to a minimum. Dog knowing the "come" command is paramount and also a Hup command. This will be harder once the dog is smelling birds so try to keep the dog out of the area of the bird and don't allow dog to get close enough to the dog on point that the flusher also can smell the bird.

No big deal if the pointing dog finds most of the birds for the day. It Should find more birds if it is hunting properly. Train your dog to come and stop and then go have fun hunting with your friends.

[Lastfrontier]

Springerdude, you bring up a great point and it is probably the reason of my bias. This is our first season together, and I am nervous to how it is going to go on a normal day, the thought of doing something different from the standard at this point in time makes me even more nervous. I was up front with both trainers on the current experience level and they both still willing to go on out. Darn valid arguments, make it harder to decide. Any birds currently would be good experience, but I have never worked with two spaniels in field, let alone pointers. Just don't want to do anything to mess with my dog.

[cmc274]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vJJEbvBSZ8

The pointers are handled from horsevack and the Spaniels come off the dog wagon, so not necessarily hunted together, but a good example of what can be accomplished.

[jimbo&rooster]

I used to run my lab and my GSP together pretty regularly, and had some luck. But, to be honest it was generally a bigger hassle than it was worth, until the 2 dogs figured the game out. My biggest issue was with my flusher. She would bust in on my GSP when she saW HIM ON POINT, AND THEN THE CHASE WAS ON. This is partially in my mind, why my GSP washed out as an HT FT dog, and caused him to get nervous and rip birds even when another dog would come in and back him.

Im curious what you expect to gain from running your spaniel with pointers if he wont retrieve? my biggest reason (my early GSP was a weak retriever), and I assume most folks reason for running both types of dog, is to count on the retrieving skills of the flusher over the pointing dog, or to be able to let the flusher do pick up work and send the pointers back out.

If it were me.... and it obviously is not. I would see if you could join your buddies without your dog this year, spend some time teaching your spaniel to "hup" and polish the retrieve and the you will have something to offer next season.

Jim

[crackerd]

The pointers are handled from horseback and the Spaniels come off the dog wagon, so not necessarily hunted together...

The only way. Unless you want to have your flusher at heel all day afield until commanded or released to go in and put up a bird. Then your flusher and pointer both better be steady to flush, shot and fall or... see directly above.

Sage stuff, jimbo - you've given the original poster the cold, hard facts of what often happens.

MG

[Lastfrontier]

Grammer error! She will not honor a point or a retrieve. She will retrieves well,but If it hits the ground she will rip after it. Hope that makes more sense. So I am assuming they want their dogs to point and then she would go in flush and retrieve.

[SpringerDude]

I know it isn't good advice to make a blanket statement encouraging the mixture of different hunting styles of dogs. But in the right situation I have seen two different dog handlers work setters on woodcock and have the springer flush the bird from the thicket when the setter is on point. Both guys do very well in the woodcock thickets hunting in this manner and neither one sees issues with their setter when hunting in this manner.

Personally, I think two guys handling their own dog can hunt with a pointer and a flusher quiet well. I have done it several times. I don't walk my dog at heel when the pointer is out questing. I let my dog cover ground and hunt as well. And yes, we ended up with the same number of finds for the day due to covering areas that the pointing dog missed.

Definitely not a standard procedure but definitely one that can be fun and productive.

Happy Hunting!

[jimbo&rooster]

I believe most of us agree that flushers and pointers can work together and I have seen labs and gsps handles as you describe. And it is awsome when it works.

My issue is that the OP admittedly had a flusher that won't honor another dog nor will it retrieve. This seams like a recipe for disaster and a sure fire way not to get invited back to hunt......

Jim

[Lastfrontier]

In the post above I tried to clear up the retrieving part. For the record, my dog does retrieve, to hand most of the time. But she will not honor a retrieve. Hup is reliable but have never worked with another dog in the field.

[jimbo&rooster]

In the post above I tried to clear up the retrieving part. For the record, my dog does retrieve, to hand most of the time. But she will not honor a retrieve. Hup is reliable but have never worked with another dog in the field.

Yeah my bad, I just saw that. How is is her recall? If you can call her in to heel or leash when the other dogs go on point and work with her on sitting patiently till its her turn to work you might have something to work with. But, it is a case where you should plan more time handling your dog than shooting.

Jim

[Lastfrontier]

Recall is reliable. That plan sounds brilliant actually. My husband is my usual gunner at least for this season so I can focus more on the dog and though I will never admit it to him, he is the better shot for now. So I am not against working more on handling than gunning.