first FF going well

magspa · Post by **magspa** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:05 am

Back in February i posted asking or advice on a retrieving method for a 2.5yo GSP. I went with Smart Fetch and it is going well. I have been taking it slow, we are just now transitioning to plastic bumpers (first time yesterday) and are working on ground transition. She clearly understands fetch means roller in mouth, although sometimes will seem really annoyed and lock-up but will eventually give in. There has only been a couple minor road bumps, first one was transition to walking hold, we worked on that for 2-3 weeks. Wife and i also took a week vacation during this so she got a break. And now as of yesterday, the plastic bumper threw her off, she is not reaching as enthusiastically for it compared to paint roller. Is this common? Also, when throwing fun bumpers, she does not return them. She will just pick them up and run around, with "here" command she will obey but drop it and come to me (which is why i decided to FF in the first place). I dont want to give any commands i cant reinforce so i just keep my mouth shut and let her have fun. But If she is not returning them should i choose a different fun activity after FF sessions? All in all, it is going well and she will be ready to go for quail and hopefully we'll get in a few duck hunts too. I really like the program, everything seems to fall in place. I think the fact that she is 2yo also makes it easier.

Del Lolo · Post by **Del Lolo** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:42 am

magspa wrote: 1. I went with Smart Fetch and it is going well.

2. and are working on ground transition.

3. Also, when throwing fun bumpers, she does not return them. She will just pick them up and run around, with "here" command she will obey but drop it and come to me (which is why i decided to FF in the first place). I dont want to give any commands i cant reinforce so i just keep my mouth shut and let her have fun. But If she is not returning them should i choose a different fun activity after FF sessions?

1. You aren't following it as well as you should be.
2. Although it's alright, SmartFetch does not recommend starting on a table and transitioning to the ground.
3. SmartFetch recommends NO retrieves until FF is complete. That's exactly (as you said) because until FF is complete, you can't enforce a proper retrieve.

Start your session with obedience, go to your FF session and put the dog up.

magspa · Post by **magspa** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:44 am

I am not using a table. Dog is on ground at all times. I meant transitioning roller/bumper to ground. Sorry, i just type what comes to my head and sometimes gets mixed up. thanks for the reply

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:44 am

Don't throw bumpers at all during FF. The dog is under a ton of pressure during FF an you're using force to make the dog get the bumper during your session, then all of a sudden you are throwing fun bumpers and expecting the dog not to be confused and instead be enthusiastic? Don't do it. Also I don't know smart fetch but did you only use a paint roller and never a dowel or other objects? Changing objects can lead to a lot of confusion for the dog, so if you are all of a sudden using a bumper with out generalizing the command, you may be having to use a lot of pressure to get the dog to get the bumper which isn't good. Also, for transitioning between objects, confusion will occur but if you repeat the exact process you did with the other object (close to mouth, gradually further till it's on the ground) it will help a lot.

magspa · Post by **magspa** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:12 am

I am not throwing bumpers during the session but a couple fun throws after the session as it says to in the Smartfech book. Yes i have used a paint roller up until now. In the book it says to switch to bumper when you start transitioning to fetching (bumper) off the ground.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:56 am

I've only FFed one dog with a pro'a assistance but I'm gonna be honest I don't think what you're doing is going to turn out well. I don't know smart fetch but I have a hard time believing it says to throw bumpers at all during the FF process. That's a big issue. Think about what message it's sending to the dog. For a whole you're having a tough session MAKING the dog fetch and hold a bumper, then later you're using the same item for fun in a similar way? Mixed signals and will delay the progress and aide in making bad habits.

In regards to the paint roller, that's usually used in the beginning, then a dowel, etc to help the dog generalize the command. Do them all the way to the ground, then once that's perfect and consistent move to a bumper. Reason is you don't want to have to use more force than needed to get the dog working a bumper because the dog can become hesitant towards bumpers later. It sounds like you're struggling a bit with the concept of FF. I'd recommend working with a pro, or atleast getting a DVD that shows it. FF is an art, not something you can read. DVDs help, books help, but a guidon hand from a pro is key. It's a crucial step and if not done properly will either ruin a dog or never let you reach it's full potential.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:01 am

Also I'd recommend calling or messaging Evan graham. He's been known to consult people using his program.

magspa · Post by **magspa** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:57 pm

Thanks Bluesky, unfortunately there are not any pros nearby to work with. I also have the dvd in addition to the book. In Smart Fetch it states to finish proof session with praise and throw a fun bumper or two without any commands. Today's session with the plastic bumper went much better, she was enthusiastically fetching with me apply resistance and holding the bumper on the ground.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:01 pm

Ok of Evan Graham's program gives instructions follow it to the T.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:14 pm

I am with Bluesky on not throwing fun bumpers while force fetching, but I could be wrong. I was one time.

Charlie

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:33 pm

Was that about head crank Charlie

)....

I second sending Evan a message and following to a T..good luck hope all goes well....

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:41 pm

birddog1968 wrote:Was that about head crank Charlie )....

I second sending Evan a message and following to a T..good luck hope all goes well....

Na, no right or wrong there...Just preference.

Charlie

Del Lolo · Post by **Del Lolo** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:49 pm

Evan is on Vancouver Island right now giving a Seminar.
He should be able to get your email in just a few days.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:35 pm

birddogger wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:Was that about head crank Charlie )....

I second sending Evan a message and following to a T..good luck hope all goes well....
Na, no right or wrong there...Just preference.

Charlie

Glad you knew I was poking fun Charlie....always value your thoughts and opinions.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:31 pm

birddog1968 wrote:
birddogger wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:Was that about head crank Charlie )....

I second sending Evan a message and following to a T..good luck hope all goes well....
Na, no right or wrong there...Just preference.

Charlie
Glad you knew I was poking fun Charlie....always value your thoughts and opinions.

Ofcourse I knew that. I got a good laugh out of it...and same here.

Thanks,
Charlie

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