Smartfetch help

[clayj]

I just recently started the force fetch process using smartfetch and I've only been at it a week. A question I have is in the video, Evan taps and cuffs the dog's snout if the dog is mouthing the roller. However my GPS which is normally really hard mouthed is barely holding the roller in his mouth. He is not dropping it, but it moves with every little tap. Is this something that I need to correct now or will it eventually work itself out. If I need to correct it, how do I go about doing that

[EvanG]

If he's not dropping it at all, go do some walking fetch for a few days. Vary the pace. Usually the quicker the pace, the more likely to drop. Let me know.

EvanG

[birddog1968]

Evan what's your suggestion for getting a dog to begin walking without dropping? I've got one now that will hold for 5+ minutes and acts rooted to the spot. But one step and trys to spit.

[EvanG]

Evan what's your suggestion for getting a dog to begin walking without dropping? I've got one now that will hold for 5+ minutes and acts rooted to the spot. But one step and trys to spit.

Don't feel bad. That's really a classic behavior. Movement tends to disrupt a dog's concentration on a task, which is why we do "Walking Hold" as part of the progression. I'll post up some video later on.

EvanG

[birddog1968]

Thanks, I've done a couple dozen dogs, just hadn't had one this stubborn to move and hold.

[EvanG]

Here's a clip to give you a look at the correct application of Walking HOLD. http://youtu.be/qvZcWzZ5TCo

EvanG

[gonehuntin']

One thing you'll find is that a GSP can be one of the hardest of dog's to ff. I used to shed a tear when one came into the kennel.

[clayj]

If he's not dropping it at all, go do some walking fetch for a few days. Vary the pace. Usually the quicker the pace, the more likely to drop. Let me know.

EvanG

I have done 3 sessions of the walking fetch and it has cleaned his firmness up nicely. Only thing I can figure is that he was not having to be corrected on the sitting hold because he never dropped it and the first step he took on the walking hold it fell out of his mouth so I had to do some correcting. He is starting to get the idea. I'm gonna stick with the walking hold for a while with added distractions.

[birddogger]

This is a very important step before going any further IME. In fact, every single step needs to be flawless before moving forward!

Good luck,
Charlie

[Bluesky2012]

One thing you'll find is that a GSP can be one of the hardest of dog's to ff. I used to shed a tear when one came into the kennel.

No lie.

[EvanG]

My mistake. I initially called this Walking fetch. It's Walking Hold.

Here's a clip to give you a look at the correct application of Walking HOLD. http://youtu.be/qvZcWzZ5TCo

EvanG

[birddogger]

My mistake. I initially called this Walking fetch. It's Walking Hold.

Here's a clip to give you a look at the correct application of Walking HOLD. http://youtu.be/qvZcWzZ5TCo

EvanG

Knew what you meant.

Charlie

[mtlhdr]

One thing you'll find is that a GSP can be one of the hardest of dog's to ff. I used to shed a tear when one came into the kennel.

No lie.

Alright guys, you piqued my curiosity. Care to expound?

[gonehuntin']

All dogs are different, all breeds are different, but the German breeds are GENERALLY some of the most stubborn. I can't expound any more than that. When you try to force a German dog to perform a task against it's will, the battle can become WWIII. No dog of any breed I have ever trained came close to being as hard to ff as a GSP. I became to believe that the key to a GSP was usually LESS pressure, and not more. Sometimes a good course is hold is the best way to go.

[EvanG]

All of that being said, your dog is your dog. Train the dog you're training, not the breed, not the reputation, not any preconceived notions about them. Train the dog, and find out for yourself how that dog trains. Stereotypes can adversely effect the training of a dog that may very well be very nice dog to work with. Lots of people throw stones at Chesapeakes, and some of the nicest retrievers I've worked with were Chessies.

EvanG

[Sharon]

One thing you'll find is that a GSP can be one of the hardest of dog's to ff. I used to shed a tear when one came into the kennel.

Now that is very interesting. Years ago I had my GSP to two pros for FF training. Neither were successful. Now I understand better.

[chrisss]

What kind of corrections are you guys giving your dogs when they drop on the hold. I have a very stubborn dog that tap under and over the chin for hold becomes useless

[clayj]

What kind of corrections are you guys giving your dogs when they drop on the hold. I have a very stubborn dog that tap under and over the chin for hold becomes useless

Every time mine would drop the paint roller, I would just say NO in a real firm tone, put the roller back in his mouth and tap him under the chin. I'm not sure if what I'm about to say is good advice or not since this is my first time doing this, but one thing that I did when I was doing the sitting hold was put the roller in the dog's mouth, make him hold for a while then start tugging on the roller and if he started to let it go without me saying give I would bump him on the snout and say hold.

Now I'm still working on the walking hold and throwing as many distractions as I can at him.

[EvanG]

What kind of corrections are you guys giving your dogs when they drop on the hold. I have a very stubborn dog that tap under and over the chin for hold becomes useless

Each dog is individual. The type and amount of pressure that will be effective will be up to that dog as to how he responds. But let's get something clear about the use of pressure.

We use pressure in dog training to change behavior. If an application of very light pressure consistently produces the desired behavior change, he's telling you that's enough for him. If you're using a tap under the chin or on top the muzzle, but not producing the desired change, your dog is telling to to use more pressure. That's how it's determined. When you reach a point at which he relents, and changes his behavior, praise him and back off a bit. That's how the pressure conditioning process works. The dog becomes more reliable and more stable, and ultimately will require less pressure for corrections.

Other questions?

EvanG

[Buck1]

I've got a question regarding the smartfetch program and working with hold. I've been working with my lab a couple days now on "hold" and when I give the command and work the paint roller into his mouth he doesn't fight back and seems to accept it fine. The problem is that he will continue to mouth the roller non stop. Since the process is so new should I continue to introduce hold or begin to tap his nose and apply pressure?

[EvanG]

I've got a question regarding the smartfetch program and working with hold. I've been working with my lab a couple days now on "hold" and when I give the command and work the paint roller into his mouth he doesn't fight back and seems to accept it fine. The problem is that he will continue to mouth the roller non stop. Since the process is so new should I continue to introduce hold or begin to tap his nose and apply pressure?

If you have the SmartFetch DVD you'll see me cuff the dog under the chin for mouthing the roller. Use pressure to change behavior. Use as much as the dog determines it needs; no more, no less.

EvanG