Crating

[Kingberd]

Looking for some new ideas for crating my 7 mth old setter. I got him at 6mths. He was kenneled at the breeders. He doesn't mind the crate once he's in but he will not willingly go in the crate. It's not his safe haven. I've tried treats and feeding him in the crate which he will enter the crate for both. He accepts most other training just not the crate!

[mnaj_springer]

Train it like any other command. After my dogs show they clearly understand what I'm asking I move into a stimulus-command-response stage. I use a lead to provide consistent pressure towards the crate. Then I say the command once, and only once. The pressure continues until they go in the crate. Start small, like 6 to 8 feet away. When my pup starts to run to the kennel after pressure is applied but before I say the command I move to a command-stimulus-response stage.

[DonF]

When I crate train, it's not really what I'd call training. The dog get's no opertunity ever to disobey. I have their collar, take them to the crate, open it. stuff them and say kennel at the same time. The dog has no choice!

[shags]

Doesn't matter at all if the crate isn't his favorite voluntary spot, as long as he's quiet while he's in there. I have one setter that just likes to go in his crate to sleep, two that prefer other spots to chill but that crate up on command, and one that needs a little help like Don's dog
What difference does it make if it's not his first choice? As long as he lays down and is quiet when you put him in there.

[Bluesky2012]

Doesn't matter at all if the crate isn't his favorite voluntary spot, as long as he's quiet while he's in there. I have one setter that just likes to go in his crate to sleep, two that prefer other spots to chill but that crate up on command, and one that needs a little help like Don's dog
What difference does it make if it's not his first choice? As long as he lays down and is quiet when you put him in there.

Agreed. I collar condition to kennel because it transfers to dog blinds, and forces the dog to go as obedience. My dogs don't mind being in a kennel but they prefer not to. Regardless, if I tell them to go, they know they have to.

Kennel is a great way to teach collar conditioning btw.

[P&PGunsmith]

I work with them outside of the vehicle at first as well. I have only had one dog that I had to use the e collar on to teach kennel. Don't worry after a while they cant wait to get in the box and go.

[Sharon]

When I crate train, it's not really what I'd call training. The dog get's no opertunity ever to disobey. I have their collar, take them to the crate, open it. stuff them and say kennel at the same time. The dog has no choice!

I was afraid to say that , but exactly what I 'd do.

PS Don't go to the dog if he's making a racket in the crate. Go for a drive if you have to. No attention and it will pass in a couple days? weeks?....

edited for missing words

[Kingberd]

Oh my dog is fine once he is in the crate. Not a peep. It's getting him to go in where he is reluctant. I grab his collar, urge him in, and say 'crate'. Is this acceptable? To me it's not. What are some ecollar tips?

[CDN_Cocker]

Forget the ecollar. Not necessary. Eventually the dog will go in on its own. Until then just give it the command and put it in. It's not an option.

[Bluesky2012]

Forget the ecollar. Not necessary. Eventually the dog will go in on its own. Until then just give it the command and put it in. It's not an option.

Don't worry about the e-collar for a while. I e-collar condition that only for a specific response, and unless you are avidly duck hunting, I wouldn't do it. That's way down the road. E-collar conditioning is a great thing but if you don't know what you're doing, it'll ruin your dog.

[CDN_Cocker]

Forget the ecollar. Not necessary. Eventually the dog will go in on its own. Until then just give it the command and put it in. It's not an option.

Don't worry about the e-collar for a while. I e-collar condition that only for a specific response, and unless you are avidly duck hunting, I wouldn't do it. That's way down the road. E-collar conditioning is a great thing but if you don't know what you're doing, it'll ruin your dog.

Agreed. E-collars are great and I use one all the time. But people need to stop turning to the e-collar for absolutely everything. It's not a band-aid for good old fashioned training. It's a finesse tool. I stand by my initial advice.

[RayGubernat]

OK, OK I'll say it.

You have the dog by the collar. He is facing the crate and the crate door is open. With your free hand reach around to the rear end of the dog, give his jewels a gentle squeeze and a push and he will go right in. No fuss, no muss. Works EVERY time.

After a few repetitions, the dog will not wait for you to use your free hand. Trust me on this. Male dogs figure it out REAL quick.

RayG

[shags]

Oh my dog is fine once he is in the crate. Not a peep. It's getting him to go in where he is reluctant. I grab his collar, urge him in, and say 'crate'. Is this acceptable? To me it's not. What are some ecollar tips?

This control thing you have with your puppy is going to come back and bite...hard.

[Sharon]

I'd never use an e collar for that kingbird. An e collar is for when the dog is out of your control and ignoring you . As long as you can get your hands on the dog , an e collar is not needed.

[Pepper]

Treats work well for the young ones.

[Kingberd]

Shags I'm total ok with letting my pup be a pup. Don't get me wrong. However he won't have the run of the house. If certain things are not instilled in the dog at an early age then that's what is going to come back to bite harder. He's 7 months not 7 weeks.

[shags]

Thing is KB, you'll want a birddog, not a robot, in the future. You wind up with a pathetic animal that shows no joy, that slinks around with its tail hanging and slinging its head looking for the big mean boss. And if you're lucky the robotic dog is the one that you'll make. Some of them, pushed and pushed over every little thing, grow a fearsome wild hair and release their independence by defiance in other areas.

IMO some of the obedience stuff is nothing but parlor tricks. As long as the dog goes in the crate and lies down quietly, what difference does it make if you collar him in or not? You still have to walk over and latch the door. Of course you need to have boundaries for him - a wild puppy isn't any fun - but sometimes it's better to find a common ground than to force issues that are meaningless in the long run.

And things do not *need* to be instilled at a young age, or all is lost. You have the next 13 years to work with and play around with your dog. A few years ago we adopted an eleven year old congenitally deaf setter who had spent maybe ten minutes a year outside a scotts kennel for all her life. She didn't even know how to walk on solid ground. It took less than a day to housebreak her, and about a week for her to pick up hand signals for various things. They learn all through their lives.

Your dog, your way of course. Best wishes for you both.

[Deets]

When I crate train, it's not really what I'd call training. The dog get's no opertunity ever to disobey. I have their collar, take them to the crate, open it. stuff them and say kennel at the same time. The dog has no choice!

I agree with this. If I want him to go in the box, he is going...... no choice.

[ezzy333]

Thing is KB, you'll want a birddog, not a robot, in the future. You wind up with a pathetic animal that shows no joy, that slinks around with its tail hanging and slinging its head looking for the big mean boss. And if you're lucky the robotic dog is the one that you'll make. Some of them, pushed and pushed over every little thing, grow a fearsome wild hair and release their independence by defiance in other areas.

IMO some of the obedience stuff is nothing but parlor tricks. As long as the dog goes in the crate and lies down quietly, what difference does it make if you collar him in or not? You still have to walk over and latch the door. Of course you need to have boundaries for him - a wild puppy isn't any fun - but sometimes it's better to find a common ground than to force issues that are meaningless in the long run.

And things do not *need* to be instilled at a young age, or all is lost. You have the next 13 years to work with and play around with your dog. A few years ago we adopted an eleven year old congenitally deaf setter who had spent maybe ten minutes a year outside a scotts kennel for all her life. She didn't even know how to walk on solid ground. It took less than a day to housebreak her, and about a week for her to pick up hand signals for various things. They learn all through their lives.

Your dog, your way of course. Best wishes for you both.

Excellent post and right on the money. A slightly different objective but it is similar and was always my biggest pet peeve where the people who had to get a dog b4ecause they couldn't find birds but then insisted on telling the pup where and how to hunt. Sometimes we lose sight of what is really important in many of our endeavors.