Here command in the field

[Sako0988]

Hi,

I have a 7 month GSP that will respond to the "here" command at home,out on the trails ...but when I get him out working on birds he will not respond.

example: This past weekend was a local training day. It was my time to run, I had 3 planted birds in a launcher. He did a great job finding the birds,held point, shot over, and he retrieved 2 birds to hand. On the 3rd bird he did not see it fall and took off looking for it. I tried to call him to where I was to search the area I knew the bird was and he would not respond to the whistle or pressure form the collar( collar was working.I put it on my arm to find out ) . Then on the way out of the field I couldn't get him to respond to get him on a leash. It's like he has tunnel vision and tunes everything else out.


Any suggestion ?

[nevermind]

I'm not a dog trainer... anyway I think you need to let the dog trainers here know how you introduced your dog to the e-collar in conjuction with the "here" command?

[Timewise65]

I primarily work with 'Retrievers', but it is perfectly normal for young retrievers to retrieve well until out in the field with live birds, then not retrieving well. They get excited just as we do! A very high percentage of Retriever trainers subscribe to using an E collar coupled with a complete Force Fetch training routine that ends in forcing to the collar. Then moving out to the yard and field now have the collar to reinforce already learned commands....their is an art to it, but having a dog in the field that does not consistently recall is not only frustrating but also very dangerous to the dog!

I would suggest finding a good trainer or good training program that includes these elements....

Good Luck

[Dakotazeb]

You might consider a check cord to enforce the "here" command. If the dog is not responding to the e-collar then it would be my opinion that the stimulation was not set high enough. But be careful with using the e-collar. The stimulation should be just high enough to get his attention. If the dog vocalizes it's set too high. Dogs can vary greatly on the amount of stimulation it takes to get their attention. My female Brittany only needs a setting of about 30 on my Dogtra yet with the same collar on my buddy's male Brittany we had to turn it to the max of 127 to get his attention.

Your dog is still young and it's not uncommon for dogs his age (I'll call them teenagers) to not respond to commands they know. They are exercising some of their independence. But they need to learn if they do not respond to a command they know there will be a consequence. Thus, proper use of an e-collar.

[cjhills]

One suggestion. Figure out some way to be certain he will respond to the recall before you try again. It will soon be a conditioned response not to respond.......................Cj

[Trekmoor]

I think the pup did his best to find the bird and just got a bit excited as he did so. Personally I would be quite happy with that and would just settle down to training the recall over a period of weeks or even months rather than look for a quick fix. The puppy was trying to find a blind retrieve and that sort of retrieve takes careful training to achieve.

In short I'd let the pup be a pup for a while longer while gradually increasing his willingness to return to you in exciting/distracting situations. Maybe try calling the pup in then at once throwing a bumper for him or flipping a live pigeon away just as he comes in ?
For me, using the e-collar would be the very last resort.

Bill T.

[Sako0988]

Everyone basically hit on something I was thinking or thought of doing. I guess it's time to do something about it. Thank you!

[RayGubernat]

Sako -

Everyone has their way to go about things. Good news is that , for the most part...they all work.

With a youngster such as yours, firstly I WOULD be concerned if the dog actually listened to me in the field when there were sights and sounds and scents and BIRDS.

The fact that it is blowing you off to hunt and enjoy is not only perfectly normal and natural... It is a sign that you have yourself a bird dog.

I would go at this in a two pronged fashion. In the yard I would work on heel and whoa, twice a day for about 10 minutes each session. I would put the dog on a checkcord in the yard...let it run about and then call it to me(when I had the cord in hand) a coupe of times, again twice a day. I would also practice watering the dog in conjunction with the recall command in the yard. Just a squirt of water in the dog's mouth.

In the field I would carry a bag of pigeons. Many do what I am going to do off a 4 wheeler. When the dog is running ahead I would have a pigeon in hand and get the dog's attention. When the dog was looing in my direction, I would toss a pigeon for the dog to chase. After the chase, the dog will almost certainly resume hunting. I would stay where I was, and d call the dog back. It will come back around eventually and when it does...release another pigeon for it to chase. I might keep a checkcord on the dog so I could catch it...depending on the dog.

If it is warm out, be careful to offer water to the dog every time it comes back in. Puppies can get overheated pretty quickly. Just a squirt or two.

if you do it right, you have the dog wanting to be around you... because you are where the fun is at. You will have the dog coming back to you...because you are where the weter is at. You will have the dog coming back to you...because you are where the birds is at.

Eventually, the dog will begin to tire of chasing the pigeons and begin standing to watch them fly off. THAT is when all the heel/whoa yardwork will pay off. A well placed "whuuup" and you will have yourself a "stop to flush". From there it is a relatively straight path to a dead broke dog.

The beauty of doing it this way, is that you are not applying any pressure. It is all between the dog and the bird. There is no question about "where should my dog be in its training at this age?" It will be between the pigeon(which the dog cannot catch), and the dog. The dog will stand when it is ready to stand. You are just providing the opportunity. The bird is doing the training. You are tossing, watching and keeping your mouth shut for the most part.

When it is all said and done, the dog will still want to be around you, because you are where the fun is at. If you have a well conditioned whoa... you can issue the command and then go and clip a lead on the stopped dog.

RayG

[gonehuntin']

The problem most people have teaching "Here" is that they are afraid to challenge the dog. In order for the dog to thoroughly respond to any command, distractions have to be introduced. This is done in the yard with a young dog and never in the field. Always keep a cc on the dog. After he know, understands, and performs "Here", have people kneel down and call him. When he starts for them command "Here" and give a sharp tug on the cc. As the dog progress, let him get closer and closer to the people before you command him. Progress to them offering him treats and when he starts for them, command "Here" and give a tug. Use different distractions and always do it in the yard. That's really the secret to getting a reliable recall. Later it can be reinforced in the field by tennis shoe or ecollar, which ever method you follow.

[polmaise]

Then there is others, who believe re-call is a conditioned response through repetition rather than a learned response through exposure.

[MSU Aggie]

You are giving a command to your dog, if they don't listen you need to act accordingly. If you have collar conditioned use your ecollar. If they arent collar conditioned use a check cord, but make sure you have a hold of it be for giving the command. Never give a command you can't reinforce. It sounds like it already know the command "here" it just ignores you.

[Sharon]

Well said and I start at 8 weeks old. I never call a pup to me , even in the house, without making it happen. No corrections, but I get off the couch or whatever and go and get the pup when he doesn't come. I don't call him unless I'm in the mood to do that. You would be amazed at this carries through over the years , and makes for a dog that always comes when called. Start from Day 1.

[NEhomer]

My question is did you find the third bird?

On two occasions with my previous dog, a britt, I was certain that she was running off on me but then had feathers on my face when she found the cripple running a hundred yards away!

[Sako0988]

NEhomer,

He didn't get with in 25-30yards of the 3rd bird. I could see the bird from where the shot was taken.

[evans213]

This happened to me during the NA test. My dog was 10 months old and while running the field several birds flew up in front of her and it was on. She pointed good the first time great and the second point when the bird flushed, off she went. Only when she got tired did she come back to me. If dogs have really high prey drive, then what else do you expect. I came home after getting a prize 3 and began immediately collar conditioning her. Now her recall is perfect with out hardly ever using the collar. When something has her total attention and she can't focus, one nick with the collar and her she comes. My suggestion is to collar condition the pup, by doing this you can allow the pup to get further than 25' or so out and still recall her with confidence. Now, you can work on her recall without using the collar but having it as security and correction if she doesn't obey the command. When you recall the pup and it comes back, either with the collar or not, praise and love em up. I always had a little bag of sliced up hot dogs for a nice little treat as well.

[Sharon]

You might consider a check cord to enforce the "here" command. If the dog is not responding to the e-collar then it would be my opinion that the stimulation was not set high enough. But be careful with using the e-collar. The stimulation should be just high enough to get his attention. If the dog vocalizes it's set too high. Dogs can vary greatly on the amount of stimulation it takes to get their attention. My female Brittany only needs a setting of about 30 on my Dogtra yet with the same collar on my buddy's male Brittany we had to turn it to the max of 127 to get his attention.

Your dog is still young and it's not uncommon for dogs his age (I'll call them teenagers) to not respond to commands they know. They are exercising some of their independence. But they need to learn if they do not respond to a command they know there will be a consequence. Thus, proper use of an e-collar.

................
Well said.

[Vman]

One of the most important things as a Trainer is consistency. We must be consistent with our commands and corrections. With that said, I find I get a better recall if I command "Come". I teach the dogs that "COME" means I want to touch you. Every time I give the command I touch and praise the dog when he gets to me.
If I want the dog to go to the front or change directions I give a "HERE" command or Here Here, and the dog will go to the front. I just want you to go with me, I don`t want to touch you, I don`t want you to come in.

By doing this I am being more consistent with the recall command "COME" Most people I see want the dog to move to the front or change direction and in this case the "HERE" command would probably be used. The dog moved to the front correctly and everything is fine. But then when you want to leash the dog or water the dog or whatever if you use the same "HERE" command, he may very well change direction or go to the front. Then multiple commands will be given to beg the dog to come in.
The handler is not being constant with the commands. If the dog could speak, he would say, "Please make up your mind" You give the same command for two different deeds and you are confusing me. Sometimes I have to come in to be touched and sometimes I don`t. I have learned to come in after you holler it 5 times and stimulation on the collar. Then I know what you want me to do.
Hope you understand what I am trying to explain. Try it, you will see a big difference in your recall.

OP, I am not saying you should change your "HERE" command for Come. You can continue using that word. But use something different for changing direction or commanding the dog to go with you.

[houghtonic]

A lot of the pointer guys down here in Texas use "hup" for change direction and get in front so I started using that while hunting and it started with yard work and changing direction with the check cord. If I'm just walking around and I want my dogs to get closer or go through a gate with me I'll call out "this way". Any commands will work as long as they are succinct and extremely consistent with the desired behavior.