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Looking for some input

Looking for some input

Postby cld22 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:37 pm

Hello there! So I have a lovely "bench" bred english springer spaniel and while I know people don't typically hunt with them I would like to try. We probably have the cards stacked against us, I am a newbie bird hunter and my springer is an 11 month old pup, he was expose only a couple of times to birds when he was pretty young, but he is obedience trained and has wonderful recall, Dove season just opened here and my husband went tonight and I tagged along with the pup, um we need help. He's fine with the gun, which we already knew, but he wanted nothing to do with the birds :? Any suggestions would be great. I realize we may not be the ideal team but its just fun for us anyways :)

Thank you,
Christina
cld22
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby cld22 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:35 am

I should add: I don't expect him to take to the birds right away. I am just looking for a starting point as both of us are newbies :)
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby Timewise65 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:03 am

I keep saying this but few here seem to have heard or experienced this before...........I hunt dove every year and have for many years....love to hunt them and eat them... I have one dog that works well on them, my other two hate them, so they get to work later in the season...

Dove are the worst possible bird to use for training a dog on birds. First their scent is weak, some dogs can walk right by a dead bird and not scent it! Other dogs will pick up the scent but may of may not be able to find the bird. Of course there are exceptions...

Secondly, doves, like pigeons, have very light breast feathers that come off in the mouth of the dog when they pick it up. I have seen dogs actually spit out a dove the first time. Then circle the bird, pick it up again, and again spit it out. The mouth feel is odd and not good for training dogs to love fetching birds...

So, I would suggest your dog is normal. This does not necessarily mean your dog has a problem or that he does have a problem. Get him on some game birds...then you will know for sure....! Of course that is just me......?
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby Meller » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:29 pm

Try him on some clipped winged pigeons, or locked wing pigeons, a live bird seems to be a little bit more encourage able for a young dog or pup.
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby polmaise » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:38 pm

cld22 wrote:Hello there! So I have a lovely "bench" bred english springer spaniel and while I know people don't typically hunt with them I would like to try. We probably have the cards stacked against us, I am a newbie bird hunter and my springer is an 11 month old pup, he was expose only a couple of times to birds when he was pretty young, but he is obedience trained and has wonderful recall, Dove season just opened here and my husband went tonight and I tagged along with the pup, um we need help. He's fine with the gun, which we already knew, but he wanted nothing to do with the birds :? Any suggestions would be great. I realize we may not be the ideal team but its just fun for us anyways :)

Thank you,
Christina

So what does it hunt like ?
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby cld22 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:22 pm

Timewise65 wrote:I keep saying this but few here seem to have heard or experienced this before...........I hunt dove every year and have for many years....love to hunt them and eat them... I have one dog that works well on them, my other two hate them, so they get to work later in the season...

Dove are the worst possible bird to use for training a dog on birds. First their scent is weak, some dogs can walk right by a dead bird and not scent it! Other dogs will pick up the scent but may of may not be able to find the bird. Of course there are exceptions...

Secondly, doves, like pigeons, have very light breast feathers that come off in the mouth of the dog when they pick it up. I have seen dogs actually spit out a dove the first time. Then circle the bird, pick it up again, and again spit it out. The mouth feel is odd and not good for training dogs to love fetching birds...

So, I would suggest your dog is normal. This does not necessarily mean your dog has a problem or that he does have a problem. Get him on some game birds...then you will know for sure....! Of course that is just me......?

Good to know! Thank you :)
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby cld22 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:23 pm

Meller wrote:Try him on some clipped winged pigeons, or locked wing pigeons, a live bird seems to be a little bit more encourage able for a young dog or pup.

Ok Thank you!
cld22
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby cld22 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:39 pm

polmaise wrote:
cld22 wrote:Hello there! So I have a lovely "bench" bred english springer spaniel and while I know people don't typically hunt with them I would like to try. We probably have the cards stacked against us, I am a newbie bird hunter and my springer is an 11 month old pup, he was expose only a couple of times to birds when he was pretty young, but he is obedience trained and has wonderful recall, Dove season just opened here and my husband went tonight and I tagged along with the pup, um we need help. He's fine with the gun, which we already knew, but he wanted nothing to do with the birds :? Any suggestions would be great. I realize we may not be the ideal team but its just fun for us anyways :)

Thank you,
Christina

So what does it hunt like ?

Well not many people bird hunt with dogs where I am at. People usually find a spot in the desert where they know dove will fly over and basically my dog would be retrieving those shot birds....hopefully. I have no clue if thats how all dove hunting works but thats the only kind I have been exposed to. From what I can gather, Gambel's quail do not hold for a pointing or flushing dog very well and are hard to get up flying. If thats the case I don't want to take him quail hunting as people then don't shoot at them when they are in the air and I don't want a gravely injured or dead dog. Again all the people I know are casual bird hunters and none of them have dogs. In fact I was told bird dogs were not needed for AZ, but then where is the fun in that :wink: The only time I have been hunting behind a dog was when I went on a ladies pheasant hunt in Indiana with an english setter, a GSP, and a GWP, super fun experience. So a long story later and to answer your question....I don't know. He does have a natural search for birds, everytime I say "Find the birds" he puts his nose to the ground and off he goes. I will just keep taking him, in addition to exposing him to some pigeons and possible other game birds like mentioned above.
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby polmaise » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:35 pm

cld22 wrote:
polmaise wrote:
cld22 wrote:Hello there! So I have a lovely "bench" bred english springer spaniel and while I know people don't typically hunt with them I would like to try. We probably have the cards stacked against us, I am a newbie bird hunter and my springer is an 11 month old pup, he was expose only a couple of times to birds when he was pretty young, but he is obedience trained and has wonderful recall, Dove season just opened here and my husband went tonight and I tagged along with the pup, um we need help. He's fine with the gun, which we already knew, but he wanted nothing to do with the birds :? Any suggestions would be great. I realize we may not be the ideal team but its just fun for us anyways :)

Thank you,
Christina

So what does it hunt like ?

Well not many people bird hunt with dogs where I am at. People usually find a spot in the desert where they know dove will fly over and basically my dog would be retrieving those shot birds....hopefully. I have no clue if thats how all dove hunting works but thats the only kind I have been exposed to. From what I can gather, Gambel's quail do not hold for a pointing or flushing dog very well and are hard to get up flying. If thats the case I don't want to take him quail hunting as people then don't shoot at them when they are in the air and I don't want a gravely injured or dead dog. Again all the people I know are casual bird hunters and none of them have dogs. In fact I was told bird dogs were not needed for AZ, but then where is the fun in that :wink: The only time I have been hunting behind a dog was when I went on a ladies pheasant hunt in Indiana with an english setter, a GSP, and a GWP, super fun experience. So a long story later and to answer your question....I don't know. He does have a natural search for birds, everytime I say "Find the birds" he puts his nose to the ground and off he goes. I will just keep taking him, in addition to exposing him to some pigeons and possible other game birds like mentioned above.

You could do as previously suggested 8) .. Then again , you could 'hunt' the dog to the same ?.....Or just do your own thing in the desert just for fun :)
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby Sharon » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:25 pm

Well not many people bird hunt with dogs where I am at. People usually find a spot in the desert where they know dove will fly over and basically my dog would be retrieving those shot birds....hopefully. I have no clue if thats how all dove hunting works but thats the only kind I have been exposed to. From what I can gather, Gambel's quail do not hold for a pointing or flushing dog very well and are hard to get up flying. If thats the case I don't want to take him quail hunting as people then don't shoot at them when they are in the air and I don't want a gravely injured or dead dog. Again all the people I know are casual bird hunters and none of them have dogs. In fact I was told bird dogs were not needed for AZ, but then where is the fun in that :wink: The only time I have been hunting behind a dog was when I went on a ladies pheasant hunt in Indiana with an english setter, a GSP, and a GWP, super fun experience. So a long story later and to answer your question....I don't know. He does have a natural search for birds, everytime I say "Find the birds" he puts his nose to the ground and off he goes. I will just keep taking him, in addition to exposing him to some pigeons and possible other game birds like mentioned above." quote
cld22

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I know little about Arizona but pointing breeds are used there I know. Here's the Arizona Bird Dog Club info. Suggest you visit a trial and watch:


http://www.azpdc.org/

https://www.google.ca/search?q=Arizona+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby DonF » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:22 am

That is a problem with the bench bred Springer's. Had one years ago and loved her to pies but hunting wasn't her thing, but she loved swimming. My first one was a hunting/show bred dog and he was a dam* good hunting dog. You might try taking it out with a bunch of pigeons with the flight feather's pulled and see if they will get her going. A late starter is not uncommon, my Stormy didn't start till he was about 11 mos old He turned out fine once he turned on.
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby Featherfinder » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:04 am

I'm confident that with the right start, your dog will do fine. Many non-hunting breeds while they don't have the strong natural ability traits still have a utile nose. I would start away from doves to instil a retrieve habit. Try a clicker and canvas (not plastic) bumper. Hold it up to your dog at nose level (rub a piece of kibble on the bumper too). When the dog just touches his nose to the bumper, "click" and provide a tiny savoury treat. As this becomes more a reflex most dogs will get more bold and mouth the bumper. At that juncture hold off clicking and treating until he mouthed the bumper. The ensuing steps should be self explanatory. Once your dog is doing well with this, secure a pair of dove wings to your bumper. Next is a real bird. In this application I would use a frozen dove but only to a max of 2-4 times. Next is the real deal - a dead dove. I like to turn this into a game right at the bumper level. In other words once the dog is taking the bumper I play the "Find it!!!" game. Hide the bumper in a not too hard to find place and away you go. Once you get the dog taking a dead dove, play the "find it" game and you're off to the races!
I would remiss if I didn't add that future canine acquisitions must initiate with an educated research process. You are not alone but hopefully the next dog will bring more inherent natural ability. That said, this dog will have enriched you both as an owner and trainer.
All the best!
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby gundogguy » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:45 am

cld22 wrote:Hello there! So I have a lovely "bench" bred english springer spaniel and while I know people don't typically hunt with them I would like to try. We probably have the cards stacked against us, I am a newbie bird hunter and my springer is an 11 month old pup, he was expose only a couple of times to birds when he was pretty young, but he is obedience trained and has wonderful recall, Dove season just opened here and my husband went tonight and I tagged along with the pup, um we need help. He's fine with the gun, which we already knew, but he wanted nothing to do with the birds :? Any suggestions would be great. I realize we may not be the ideal team but its just fun for us anyways :)

Thank you,
Christina


Christina
Not sure of your location? However your best resources would be in the Spaniel Hunt Test community. There are many Benchies that have been trained and titled, and they did it with the help of the Spaniel community at large, and over the last 30 years have developed a culture that would be very conducive for a person like your self.Send me a PM with the area of country you live. I know I can hook you up with some real help.
Login and check your message box.

Hal
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Re: Looking for some input

Postby cld22 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:51 pm

Thank you everyone for the great advice and will let you all know how it goes :)
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