Hunting Dog Training & More    

Popular Searches: Garmin Astro | Dog Collars | Tri-Tronics | SPORTdog

Intro to birds/pointing

Intro to birds/pointing

Postby Andre205th » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:04 am

Hi everyone, I need some opinions. I’m trying to introduce pigeons to develop my dogs point. I see two ways I can do this, using a manual launcher with 2 people or with only myself using dizzied pigeons.
I guess the third option is to spend some more money and get a remote launcher, prefer to work with what I have. The dog has flash pointed some dizzied pigeons once, the only time I’ve used pigeons so far. 7month old dog. Thanks
Andre205th
Rank: Just A Pup
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:01 pm
Location: Please ADD LOCATION

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby Sharon » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:18 pm

Flash pointing at 7 months is just fine imo. When your dog starts to creep/ hesitate then I go to the CC.
I only trained with hard flying dizzied pigeons and had good success. Never used a launcher.
User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 8072
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby birddogger2 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:06 pm

There is one other way to get from here to there.

It is a "stop to flush" technique.

Basically you let the dog run in a field of cover and when the dog is running, you launch a pigeon from a trap(if you have a remote launcher of assistant) as the dog is running in that direction. The dog does not need to smell the birds, but just has to see them erupt from the cover. If the dog chases the first half dozen birds...fine. It will learn it cannot catch them. If you have an e-collar, set it on the LOWEST setting the dog will acknowledge and give the dog a series of nicks, about a second apart. Say nothing to the dog.

The idea is not to correct the dog, but more just to annoy it. If and when the dog stops...nick it a couple of more times and then go to the dog.

Alternatively, if you are alone and do not have remote launchers, you can carry a few in a bag. In the old days...BEC ...before e-collars... one would have the dog trailing a 20-25 ft. checkcord while running. as the dog passed by, you would toss a pigeon and LIGHTLY step on the rope, giving the dog a tug as it chased. If you missed the checkcord...Oh well.

In later training, after the dog is beginning to stop on its own after a short chase, the e-collar with above mentioned nicks can be used alone or in conjunction with the checkcord to further "encourage" the pup to stop and stand at the sight of the flying bird. Little pops with the checkcord.

A dog that will reliably "stop and stand to flush" , will be pretty close to broke and you can complete the task with a checkcord and a prong or pinch collar or an e-collar.

If you are going to steady a dog with an e-collar, get someone to show you how to put the collar on the dog's belly and, starting with the VERY lowest stim level, find out the level which the dog acknowledges. It will almost always be a much lower setting than the one on the neck, so be careful.

I do my final steadying to wing and shot with launchers. I bring the dog in, perpendicular to and downwind of the scent cone and the INSTANT the dog smells the bird it needs to stop dead and grow roots. If it indicates that it smells the bird(a head turn, a head rise, etc.) and does not immediately stop... launch the bird and pop the checkcord. If you have manual launchers, equip them with a long string and deploy the string so that you can gather it up before the dog hits the scent cone.

As Shags might say...Rinse and repeat as necessary.

RayG
birddogger2
Rank: Master Hunter
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:15 am
Location: Lower slower Delaware

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby averageguy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:13 pm

Buy the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish DVDs and a couple of high quality remote control launchers. Use them and strong flying pigeons as instructed in the DVDs. You will be glad you invested the money while hunting over your staunch stylish dog for the next 13-14 years.
averageguy
Rank: Champion
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:07 am
Location: Please ADD LOCATION

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby isonychia » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:20 am

Im using dizzied and put to sleep pigeons for exposure to a young pup right now, too young for launchers. It is reminding me of how valuable launchers are.
User avatar
isonychia
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Southwestern Colorado

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby Meller » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:51 am

It would help to know where or what state you are from; maybe someone close that could show how to help you.
Meller
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 1037
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Missouri

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby mask » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:56 am

I use carded pigeons or chukar before I use launchers.
mask
Rank: 2X Champion
 
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Idaho

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby Andre205th » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:17 pm

The one time I used pigeons they were carded. I let the dog run/hunt while dragging a 30’ cord. I found it difficult or clunky trying to regain control before the point and to restraining the dog after the flush. I’m sure I was doing something wrong but it was not an easy task. I plan to purchase 10 pigeons for this weekend and launch them when he breaks point. I’m hoping by the 10th pigeon I’ll get him to hold point for some amount of time. I’m in Louisiana.
Thanks everyone
Andre205th
Rank: Just A Pup
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:01 pm
Location: Please ADD LOCATION

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby isonychia » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:05 am

Andre205th wrote:The one time I used pigeons they were carded. I let the dog run/hunt while dragging a 30’ cord. I found it difficult or clunky trying to regain control before the point and to restraining the dog after the flush. I’m sure I was doing something wrong but it was not an easy task. I plan to purchase 10 pigeons for this weekend and launch them when he breaks point. I’m hoping by the 10th pigeon I’ll get him to hold point for some amount of time. I’m in Louisiana.
Thanks everyone


4 sessions with 2-3 birds each will do a lot more for the dog than 1 session with 10 birds if you can keep the pigeons in a box for a week in your basement. They don't forget how to fly that quickly. 10 birds is a heavy session.
User avatar
isonychia
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Southwestern Colorado

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby mask » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:36 am

This is a pup, right? If that is the case working him on 2 or 3 birds a day rather than 10 in one day would better serve your pup. One can sour a pup by to much work and no play. Carded birds are for check cord work only until the dog is steady and you can go on to the next step in training. A good book on training or video may help you and your pup. Training with Mo would be a good choice and one I would recommend.
mask
Rank: 2X Champion
 
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Idaho

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby DonF » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:09 am

My first pointing dog was Hannah, a GSP. I trained her with a check cord and had three pigeon's. I never allowed her to drag the CC, I held onto to it so when I gave a command, I could enforce it. I dizzyed the pigeons and put the in cover best I could. Then check cord her near them and stop her when I figured she could smell the bird. All I actually proved with that system is you can screw up and still come out with a good dog!

If you can afford remote launcher's, do it. When I got y first set, Wag Ag, I continued along the same path. Plant the bird and CC the dog into it. At some point I got to thinking I didn't need to CC the dog, just let it run and pop the bird if it got to close. One thing led to another and I learned to pay attention to my dog's and try to make the bird act like a game bird. Then I quit training and started teaching the dog's. Today a dog can run by a bird within about 10 feet upwind and I pop the bird on it. What ever a wild bird might do I try to simulate with the release trap and a pigeon. Work's like a charm.

I believe that controlling the dog with a CC around a bird may teach the dog what we want but using the trap let's the dog learn to get what it want's, which by the way, is what we really wanted all along.I still use the CC a lot, but not on birds. The guy's that train on wild birds have the right idea. Problem is they have no idea when or even if the dog will find a bird; wild birds don't cooperate with you! If you can afford the remote traps, do it, best move you can make. Quit training what you want and teach the dog how to get what it want's!
User avatar
DonF
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 3691
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Antelope, Ore

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby setterpoint » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:17 pm

get someone to help you plant your bird head tuck under wing bring you dog in crosswind you can tell when the dog hits scent if your dog dont point have the frind throw a bird if your going to let the dog chase thats up to you if not let the dog watch the bird fly and walk away and repeat when the dog points have your helper walk with a bird in hand try not let the dog see the bird your helper has in there hand the dog will prob, break point thats when the helper throws the bird in his hand you can controll the dog the planted bird will stay put for 10 mins or so. you want the dog to think he flushed bird ,or buy you a remote launcher
setterpoint
Rank: Champion
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:10 pm
Location: jellico tn

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby DonF » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:51 am

If you do get the remote's your gonna find teaching to be a whole lot more productive than training. I got the set from Lion Country Supply, less expensive than the other's. Have had them quite a while now, eight or nine years. One of the traps receiver went bad on me and got a new one from Lion Country and back in the game. My set has three traps. I figure setting up with on is generally counter productive. Problem being you work one bird then put the dog up and plant another Dog's gonna get used to that and some of the fire will burn out.

I know of a bunch of people that say their dog won't point a pigeon. The over used the pigeon and taught the dog that the pigeon is just a training bird and finding it does nothing for them. You take the remote set up and you be the bird and the dog's will always have the fire, shoot lot's of them when the dog is right! That is what the dog want's, a bird in it's mouth.

I have never tried it but I believe I could take one of these won't point a pigeon dog's and have it pointing pigeon's again in a short time. Teach, don't train.
User avatar
DonF
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 3691
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Antelope, Ore

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby setterpoint » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:07 pm

yea iv never had a prob, mayby first time or to but never had a dog that want point them i have seen dogs do this with a woodcock to but kill a bird for them and they catch on fast and start pointing
setterpoint
Rank: Champion
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:10 pm
Location: jellico tn

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby DonF » Tue May 01, 2018 8:28 am

Keep in mind about remote's, they let you control the bird. Putting down sleeping birds and dizzied birds is giving the dog every chance to catch them, you don't want that but that could well be what your training. If you do do that, get someone to flush for you and never let go the check cord. Learn to red your dog and learn to use the wind.

I've never used card's but have known a few that have. Problem is you may have bird land up in a tree where you can't get it. Or it may land on a phone line and you can't get it. Bit ugly watching a bird struggling and nothing you can do about it. By controlling the bird you eliminate that. And the bird goes back to where you got it.

I don't recall what I paid for my remote's but it was the best money I ever spent.
User avatar
DonF
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 3691
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Antelope, Ore

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby Meller » Tue May 01, 2018 3:22 pm

It has been my experience that if your having pigeons in trees or electrical lines, your are not using a big enough card.
Meller
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 1037
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Missouri

Re: Intro to birds/pointing

Postby polmaise » Tue May 01, 2018 4:32 pm

DonF wrote:Keep in mind about remote's, they let you control the bird. Putting down sleeping birds and dizzied birds is giving the dog every chance to catch them, you don't want that but that could well be what your training. If you do do that, get someone to flush for you and never let go the check cord. Learn to red your dog and learn to use the wind.

I've never used card's but have known a few that have. Problem is you may have bird land up in a tree where you can't get it. Or it may land on a phone line and you can't get it. Bit ugly watching a bird struggling and nothing you can do about it. By controlling the bird you eliminate that. And the bird goes back to where you got it.

I don't recall what I paid for my remote's but it was the best money I ever spent.


If you look for reason's not to do something you will find a reason!. :mrgreen:
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 2170
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland


Return to Training

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 4 guests

| Pedigrees

THIS POST : Intro to birds/pointing brought to you by Gun Dog Supply: Dog Training Collars & Hunting Dog Supplies

Click here to tweet this post

  • NOT logged in
  • Intro to birds/pointing
  • ./viewtopic.php?f=89&t=52919&start=0&sid=1f3111ac735bbf48c562a21db5889822