Bird launchers

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Nmhuntr
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Bird launchers

Post by Nmhuntr » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:55 pm

I have a need for a bird launcher. It wont get much use except for this dog so for a few months hopefully and maybe a little reinforcement now and then. Who makes a good launcher for this application. Are the LCS launchers good enough for this?


Thanks

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DonF
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by DonF » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:03 am

I have a set of three LCS launcher's. Been using them close to 12 years now. Had one motor go bad several years ago but other wise I don't have a complaint one with them. I've used Dogtra, DT Systems. a set I got out of Amer Fld from the S.E. and first set was Wag Ag. The Amer Fld set lasted very well but the transmitter was awkward, to big. The Wag Ag was very nice but used a wire to melt a rubber band to set it off and the wire was always needing changed and the DT Systems was a very early model with re-chargeable transmitting unit. Worked very well but sending unit was just a bit to big. If I was to get another today getting Dog Tra, DT Systems or the lion Country set wouldn't bother me at all. Oh yea, forgot. Used a set of EZ many years ago, wouldn't spend money on them.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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Nmhuntr
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Nmhuntr » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:18 am

Thanks a lot for the response. That is some good experience and I feel sure the LCS will more than do the job for me

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Urban_Redneck
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Urban_Redneck » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:52 am

The only knock against the LCS launchers is they are a little small for chukar and big homers- especially if it's hot.

art hubbard
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by art hubbard » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:38 am

Dogtra period.

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Featherfinder
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Featherfinder » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:19 am

Dogtra X2.

Joe3232
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Joe3232 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:41 pm

What about the cheaper manual releases that you use your foot. Will they get the job done for someone on a budget?

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Nmhuntr
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Nmhuntr » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:56 pm

Good idea
I would not mind spending more but with 1 dog and limited time I do not see me wearing one out thus I was opting for the less expensive version assuming the others were intended to be used a lot more and would hold up better. I may go the manual route and try it

Thanks

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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Joe3232 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:09 pm

Nmhuntr wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:56 pm
Good idea
I would not mind spending more but with 1 dog and limited time I do not see me wearing one out thus I was opting for the less expensive version assuming the others were intended to be used a lot more and would hold up better. I may go the manual route and try it

Thanks
to be clear, i have not used a bird launcher before..i am also new...was hoping someone could tell me if they are worth trying or not...good luck

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Nmhuntr
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Nmhuntr » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:16 pm

From my observations the remote launchers can be activated as soon as the dog scents. I believe this is good because soon the dog will catch the scent point and wait for a bird to appear as that is what they have been taught would happen. If I have to walk up to the bird and do a manual release with my foot or the longer string I feel some of that may be lost. I still may try it.
Thanks for clarifying and good luck.

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Featherfinder
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Featherfinder » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:24 am

Bird launchers are like most training aids - as good as the operator. I have seen many a good dog really messed up by launchers used incorrectly.
Using one properly requires more than basic operating instructions.
Manual launchers are pretty much a sure bet that you will mess up your dog. Your dog will subsequently need fixed (so much for your $$$ savings) or....you could simply redefine your definition of a decent bird dog. The latter is the least expensive route. :lol:

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Urban_Redneck
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Urban_Redneck » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:05 am

Joe3232 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:41 pm
What about the cheaper manual releases that you use your foot. Will they get the job done for someone on a budget?
I train a lot with a check cord, the manual traps force me to lose visual and positive control while I seek and launch the bird- IMHO, an unsteady dog needs my full attention. I don't verbally "whoa" or E collar correct the dog when the bird is on the ground, I need the remote control to fly the bird the moment she gets too close or breaks point.

I do use kick cages occasionally once my dog is steady to plant an "extra" birds next to the E launcher. Killing that bird as reward if she remains steady to wing and shot on the first.

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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Joe3232 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:54 pm

Featherfinder wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:24 am
Bird launchers are like most training aids - as good as the operator. I have seen many a good dog really messed up by launchers used incorrectly.
Using one properly requires more than basic operating instructions.
Manual launchers are pretty much a sure bet that you will mess up your dog. Your dog will subsequently need fixed (so much for your $$$ savings) or....you could simply redefine your definition of a decent bird dog. The latter is the least expensive route. :lol:
Thanks for this info. Right now my puppy is pointing well. At this stage in the training I am flushing birds and letting her chase. Is there a ton of downside if I use the kind of "launcher" that is just operated by foot overturning a basket? I can see why a remote launcher is better when trying to steady dog but if we are just having "fun" at this stage am I risking alot by going with a cheap version? I am new so sorry if this is an obvious question.

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Featherfinder
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Featherfinder » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:39 am

Joe, we ALL were new to the sport at one time. Actually, your question is a very good one!
I appreciate that we all have a budget and a pro trainer might not be an option for many. That said, can you find an amateur that has an enviable track record reasonably near-by? Some amateurs are as good or better than some pros. They simply chose to retain their amateur status in the field trial world.
This is why others have suggested you acquire decent training videos. They are a more cost effective alternative. Not as good as working with someone but... Then again, working with the wrong someone is even worse!!
This forum is rife with expertise. The inherent aspect of that is that you will get a plethora or responses which can make you susceptible to (conflicting) info over-load! What works for some might not work for others. Again, this is a good reason to find a process and follow it from pillar to post.
For example, I do not use or own ANY kick cages, use no tethers and only use Dogtra remote launchers to address issues rather than create them.
These items have a way of contributing to:
- Blinking,
- Creeping,
- Bird shy,
- Stress (loss of style on point) derived from the handler/trainer that is fumbling with all the variables and hoping to get it right on a critically timely basis. Been there...done that. It's a bit like playing Russian roulette with your dog!
I no longer play these odds but it is the result of ~40 years of making mistakes. I am actually an expert at that (making mistakes). :P
All the best Joe!

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Urban_Redneck
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Urban_Redneck » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:39 am

One thing to consider if you think you'll be done with launchers in short order- the easiest dog training item to sell is used electronic launchers. Start scouring the various boards, ebay etc. you might find a couple.

Another option is to join a club or NAVHDA chapter, most have equipment to share.

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DonF
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by DonF » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:47 am

If you use a launcher, make the bird in it act like a wild bird. Otherwise a check cord and birds sat on the ground with their head tucked will train your dog if you do your part. Of course the same goes for the remote launcher, you have to do your art or it won't work that well. Bird's in the remote IMO should only be pigeons and homer's or feral don't make one bit difference. Pen raised game birds some time's have the habit of not flying far if at all. Pigeons generally come off the ground and land in a tree or power pole ect, dog can't run them down! A young dog hasn't got a clue the difference in a pigeon, quail or chukar, use that to your advantage and make the pigeon act wild. When planting a bird in the remote launcher, know exactly where it is and where the breeze is coming through the bird. You don't know that and you better hope your dog stops and holds for you. I have gone to marking my traps with wood cloth's pins painted blaze orange. I know where they are and where the wind is moving. do not got in front of your dog looking for bird, watch the dog! Dog so much as blinks while your going to the front, pop the bird and move on to the next. Do not correct the dog, the remote already did. If you flush without the dog moving, then praise is in order. Do not get in front and look for the bird. It's not important you actually kick grass or anything else, that will only serve to distract the dog. Lot's of people do just that and then use it to correct the dog. That is setting your dog up to fail. You kick the grass faking the flush and of course the dog is going to move, that why it's done. Opportunity to correct the dog for a mistake you caused!

Now to be sure, you don't need a remote to train the dog, a check cord will work just fine and better with a helper. A whole lot of dog's have been trained with nothing more than a check cord! In fact a lot of hunting dog's have been trained by just taking them hunting. Just taking them hunting give's you the advantage of the wild bird. Disadvantage is you have no clue where the bird is or if you'll even find one that time out. Remote and pigeon's made to act wild give you the best advantage.

Important thing when training, keep your mouth shut. The dog doesn't understand english so don't try to teach it while you have a dog working a bird!

Forgot, one more thing. Do not walk past your dog close to it when you go to flush, you'll pull the dog. You can't blame the dog for making a mistake you brought on. Circle to the front of the dog, try to have the bird, you know where it is, between you and the dog. You dog that with a wild bird and the bird will flush, not try to run out. if your between the dog and the bird the bird could try to run out on you! make your training bird act wild all the time! You control that!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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Re: Bird launchers

Post by polmaise » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:47 pm

My mind cast back for a minute to our friend with the dog hunting too fast :mrgreen:

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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Sharon » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:03 pm

Joe3232 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:09 pm
Nmhuntr wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:56 pm
Good idea
I would not mind spending more but with 1 dog and limited time I do not see me wearing one out thus I was opting for the less expensive version assuming the others were intended to be used a lot more and would hold up better. I may go the manual route and try it

Thanks
to be clear, i have not used a bird launcher before..i am also new...was hoping someone could tell me if they are worth trying or not...good luck
Well worth it, unless you lose the remote like I did and then couldn't find the launcher. :oops: :roll:
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by gundogguy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:19 am

polmaise wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:47 pm
My mind cast back for a minute to our friend with the dog hunting too fast :mrgreen:


:mrgreen:
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Re: Bird launchers

Post by Joe3232 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:59 pm

Thank you all

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Re: Bird launchers

Post by DonF » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:09 pm

Urban_Redneck wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:52 am
The only knock against the LCS launchers is they are a little small for chukar and big homers- especially if it's hot.
Actually the LCS launcher's are the first that I've ever had that have enough room in them for Homer's.All my older launcher's had smaller cages and in hot weather would kill a homer in it. The older one's were just right for feral's. I tried pen raised birds in a launcher and I can't recommend it. Lot of those birds don't fly real well if at all!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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