Fetching issue

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FirehouseBirdDogs
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Fetching issue

Post by FirehouseBirdDogs » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:27 pm

I have a 8 Month old chocolate lab, currently we are working on fetching. He gets very excited about the ball or bumper but as soon as i throw it he will sometimes run after it and sometimes he just walks back to me. And even when he runs after it he won't pick it up. This is my first lab and with my shorthairs they picked up retrieving very quickly so I am at a complete loss. Thanks in advance!

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Sharon
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by Sharon » Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:11 pm

I see you have no replies. I'm no retriever expert. Hopefully some who are on here, can jump in and help.

This thread might help. I'm sure Average Guy would be glad to get you started too.

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=54294&p=501068&hil ... ng#p501068

Have a look at this: Ignore the arguing, but have a look at the DVDs etc that might help you.

https://www.versatiledogs.com/forum/vie ... =8&t=21089
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote

shags
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by shags » Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:40 pm

I've only ever done play retrieving with my dogs, so can't help training-wise. But there are some materials my dogs don't want anything to do with...like that smelly rubber or some slick plastics.

Trekmoor
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by Trekmoor » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:57 pm

Stop using any bumper your pup does not want to pick up. Try, just to get things started, rolling up one of your old and nice and smelly woolen socks and toss that a short distance ….then walk away at speed while calling the pup in a friendly, happy tone of voice.

Not many pups can resist an old smelly sock and if the pup picks up that it can then be pulled over a bumper forming a jacket for the bumper or other retrieve article ...including a ball.

Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

polmaise
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by polmaise » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:04 pm

Throw a Bone and leave him to it, if he doesn't pick that up , then he isn't hungry enough for the game :wink:
Walk away ,as suggested by others , but let that guy hold on and keep walking hold with that prize. 8) ...then you can work on all the fancy techniques suggested by 'experts' :mrgreen:

averageguy
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by averageguy » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:21 am

FirehouseBirdDogs,

Sharon posted some links that I hope are helpful to you. Here is my current 5 month old pup in some work this week. I am pleased with her progress so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWgOofEB57Y

I'm just an amateur trainer working with a few dogs over a lot of years. All my dogs have been excellent at recovering downed game of all types in all types of conditions. They are the kind of dogs that get called over to find birds when other dogs give up. Much of that is genetics and some of it is correct shaping and handling on my part.

I'm glad to share any knowledge or experience I have (send me PM if you like), but those DVDs listed in those threads contain a lot of excellent instruction from guys who qualify as "Experts" if anyone does.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by gonehuntin' » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:45 am

I'd worry if I were you. Does the lab have a good field or field trial pedigree? That's the first thing. Most Lab's are absolute retrieving machines. You can't throw enough balls, frisbees, bumpers, etc. to tire them out. They are making headway, but still, if you're going to have a problem it will be with a chocolate. Many years ago (man) there was a saying among professional retriever trainers : "If it's brown, flush it." Today they have come a long way buy ONLY if you buy from a decent line.

What concerns me about yours is not the slow retrieve, that's fairly common because they don't want you to take the object from them and throw it again. It shows some possessiveness. The thing you have to understand about retrieving is that to run to the thrown object shows the desire to retrieve whether they pick that object up or not. To pick up that object and return to you shows training. Without seeing the dog my worry is that he has NO or little desire. You can do nothing with a dog like that. They aren't worth your time. Force training will cure a host of ills and sometimes it even awakens a latent retrieving desire. Not often. Take him to a pro and see what they think. Good Luck.
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FirehouseBirdDogs
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by FirehouseBirdDogs » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:15 pm

He is from great lines, solid pedigree in both upland pointing and retriever competition. He is a great family dog, i finally got him to retrieve twice in a row. Made it a huge deal both times and stopped after the second one. Wanted to end on a good note. Tomorrow going to try for three times! He seemed very excited when he did it the second time!. Which in my opinion is encouraging. I had him at a friend's training program for 2 months, he has done great with my 4 other dogs. And this one he was worried about.

Thanks all

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Irishwhistler
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by Irishwhistler » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:55 pm

Aye Mate,

Seems ye have hit a wall with ye brown retriever and may want to consider the work o' a pro unless ye know how to conduct HOLD and FORCE FETCH conditioning,
So the process o' the conditioned HOLD and FORCE FETCH continues for chocolate Labrador retriever gun dog trainees REX and SHOOTER as conducted by meself. Neither REX nor SHOOTER presented what would be considered a "natural hold", and neither dog could be depended on to hold any item for more than a few brief seconds when I started this work with them. So we are currently at the mark where most all o' the work I am doing with both trainees has moved from them having been taken out o' three contact points o' isolation on the table. The three points o' contact are with the neck tethered to the upright post on the table as done with a collar, the two front legs are shackled in hobbles attached to the table, and the lower abdominal area has a belt around it that is affixed to the overhead cable, all o' this done to isolate the dog from moving extraneously and fighting the process. Additionally, the dog being isolated from movement as such keeps the dog much safer whilst on the table. Whilst so isolated, we had moved to the point where several varying objects were being reached for and solidly held by the dog on the table. Once said objects were being held by the trainees solidly on the table, I moved them to doing so on the ground whilst conducting "WALKING HOLD" with the dogs on-lead. Subsequently, I continued me work with the dogs whilst only attached to the overhead cable that runs the length o' the table with a dropper line attached to the dog's neck collar via a cord and carabiner. The trainees are worked up and down the table in chase o' the item and the "FETCH" command is issued as the retriever takes the item into its mouth to HOLD it. I vary between doing this both with training pressure applied (ear pinch and collar pressure) and to zero application o' pressure. I like the dog to realize the contrast betwixt pressure applied and no pressure applied and for the dog to make the association o' what they must do in order to avoid experiencing pressure - that being to FETCH and HOLD the item as commanded to until the issued release command "GIVE" prompts the trainee to release the bumper into the trainer's hand.

All o' the previously mentioned information taken into account, I have recently started the introduction o' feathers and birds into our continuing conditioning processes. I first make use o' the canvas bumper with bird wings (two freshly thawed pheasant wings) attached to it by the means o' duct tape. Most all o' the retrievers I work with readily show interest in the feathered bumper. This tool becomes more than simply an item to HOLD, it becomes a tool o' motivation aimed at enhancing the trainees interest in all things related to birds. Once I have the trainee holding the "feathered bumper" solidly and without a lot o' extraneous mouthing, I soon introduce actual birds in the form o' frozen, freshly thawed, and freshly killed pigeons or chukar partridge. I work with each dog to make certain that they are HOLDING the bird without a lot o' dysfunctional mouthing.
DSC08221_Fotor.jpg
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~ REX HOLDING ~ REX is seen HOLDING the "feathered bumper" solidly. REX is worked up and down the table and corrections are made as needed for any observed mouthing. Random exchanges o' the FETCH and GIVE commands are issued and reinforced during this work on the table.
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~ REX HOLDING A BIRD ~ REX is seen demonstrating a nice HOLD o' a freshly thawed pigeon during a recent table session o' FORCE FETCH conditioning.
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~ SHOOTER HOLDING A FEATHERED BUMPER ~ SHOOTER is seen holding the canvas training bumper with pheasant wings attached. The scent associated with the use of these "winged bumpers" is highly motivational and is helpful in teaching the recruit to accept the tactile variation in the feathered bumper versus the non-feathered bumper. The progression noted is helpful in the retriever trainee's making a ready and relatively seamless transition to fetching and carrying birds.
Last edited by Irishwhistler on Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Irishwhistler
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by Irishwhistler » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:56 pm

DSC08245_Fotor.jpg
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~ SHOOTER HOLDING FRESH THAWED PIGEON ~ Having made the transition from carrying just a smooth plastic and canvas training bumper to "feathered bumpers", SHOOTER is now learning how to maintain the HOLD o' actual birds as seen here in her carry o' a fresh thawed pigeon.

Both REX and SHOOTER have learned the mechanics o' the basic single mark retrieve and actual dead birds will be utilized for further conditioning o' both the retrieve and the enhanced love o' doing so within these trainees. Additionally, the dogs are continually fine tuned for finesse in delivery o' the bird to hand with classic presentation being the standard. All birds must be gently handled by the dogs so as to be considered "fit for the table".

Both REX and SHOOTER are doing well in their continuing development o' the skills that will forge them into competent gun dogs.

Enjoy every moment spent with ye beloved sporting dog(s) !

Cheers,
THE DOG WHISTLER ☘️🇮🇪🇺🇸

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Sharon
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by Sharon » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:22 pm

Wow. Gorgeous pictures. Thanks. :)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote

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Irishwhistler
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by Irishwhistler » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:22 pm

Sharon wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:22 pm
Wow. Gorgeous pictures. Thanks. :)
Sharon,
Glad to help. 👍

Mike ☘️🇮🇪🇺🇸

polmaise
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by polmaise » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:44 pm

I never did get caught up on all that stuff with Chocolate,Black,Yellow stuff with Retrievers (Retriever owners) who have the individuals.
They all are Retrievers ,but not every 'Labrador' is a retriever (ringing in my ear from an old mentor)
......
I reckon when they' are born they are 100% perfect no matter the colour of their fur.
We as handlers/custodians,or trainers of a puppy retriever from the first day and every day thereafter are shaping and moulding and teaching that bundle of Fluff how and what it should do.
....Call me Old fashioned' ...! A dog ...any dog that does not have Chase is hardly likely to want to have catch and is hardly likely to have hold no matter the breeding in the lineage !(I can confirm this by documentation ..on all the dogs that have been bred since records began on all continents ,purchased from Ftch's and Not achieved anything other than sit by the fire, rather than gain Blue Ribbons) .
...
The 'Fetching Issue' ...Is Man'ipulated..
Force hold , or Force Fetch or Fido Fetch a stick (IMHO) Has nothing , if not confusing for a pup that just wants to go get something .(all be it some want to pigeon hole a colour to it ) Or god forbid ...a Specific breed , by saying a Pointer or something :roll:

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CDN_Cocker
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Re: Fetching issue

Post by CDN_Cocker » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:00 pm

Force fetch is part of the answer but a lack of enthusiasm a lot of times is due to too much retrieving. Lots of people get a gun dog and are excited about its natural tendency to retrieve so they are always throwing stuff for the dog. You need to build excitement around it. Wind the dog up and only do 1 or 2 throws and put the dummy away. I wouldn't even do it every day. You need to build value to the retrieve. I guarantee you're throwing way too many retrieves for him.
Cass
"If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." - Rex Carr

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