A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

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Walk213
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A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

Post by Walk213 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:46 am

https://youtu.be/YweTUJPPE-4

Josey is a 15 month old Labrador Retriever. She is the niece to my 4.5 year old, Echo. Josey has been through some formal training that included force fetching techniques. We worked with Josey all summer on her retrieving to hand, and holding the bumper. She has come a long way as bumper work did not come naturally. Echo demands to be thrown to at least once a day. Josey (slowly) picked up on what the game is all about, and she improved throughout summer.

This was our first "hunt" together. As you see, her nose is fine, but her desire to retrieve downed birds is suboptimal. We will continue to work on this critical behavior. I never thought that a Labrador Retriever would struggle retrieving.

-Any advice would be appreciated.
-My shots are no where near Josey - the GoPro does not accurately display depth well
-Our commands are - fetch or name, here, heel, sit, hold[/list]

Thank you in advance.

averageguy
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Re: A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

Post by averageguy » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:14 pm

I could not make it to the halfway point. Sorry. (I went back and watched the whole thing)

I lost track of how many different commands you shouted starting the moment the bird hit the ground. Wow.

Why are you saying whoa to a flushing dog while it is working a bird getting ready to flush it? Let the dog work the bird and get into gun range when it is obviously getting birdie and a flush is eminent.

Teach the Here command and use it consistently. Say it once and require the dog to obey it immediately.

Teach the dog to Hold objects, including Holding a bird. Buy and follow a Trained Retrieve program so you know how to go about that training.

The Perfect Here and Perfect Retrieve DVDs will instruct on both of those commands.

One word for every command. Only one word. Train the Command in the yard and then in the field. Give a command once only and enforce it. Praise the dog only when it is doing what it was commanded to do.

Stop rattling off 20 different words and phrases none of which have been trained and none of which are being enforced.

You have a nice dog. You need to be trained on how to train your dog. Instructional DVDs are a good place to start.

Your disclaimer aside it sure looks like some of your shot selections were not safe.

Walk213
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Re: Wild Birds

Post by Walk213 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:48 pm

As I stated, she has been formally trained. All of the commands (sit, fetch, here, heel, hold) that I use have been reinforced since April. I am not a gun dog trainer, but I am trying to do the things that I have been taught. I work on reinforcing the skills that she learned during her formal training. I mimic the work I put in with my 4.5 year old who went through the same training.

I appreciate the advice.

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Last edited by Walk213 on Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ricwoodard
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Re: A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

Post by Ricwoodard » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:36 pm

What exactly did you mean by saying thanks for watching 50% of the video?

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Re: A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

Post by Trekmoor » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:11 am

O.K. .....I hope you are good at acccepting well meant criticism because that's about all I have to offer. There is absolutely nothing wrong ..........with the dog ! I found myself, as I watched the little film, wishing that someone would appear from the wings to put sticky tape over your mouth ! The dog is doing what I would do if someone rained commands and unnecessary instructions on me as I tried to do my job ........the poor bitch just switched itself "OFF" to you !

First of all let me say that I felt your shooting was dangerous to the dog..... not enough clearance between the dog and the charge of shot.

The other reply you had to your post gave good advice and I will now add a little bit more from a more "British" point of view. Do not tell a flushing breed to whoa ....it isn't a pointer. Stop giving the dog a plethora of commands ....you really only need no more than half a dozen ....or fewer !

Less is more where commanding a dog is concerned . I honestly do not give a dog any more commands during an entire day of shooting as you give for just one retrieve ....that still does not get done efficiently.

Speaking only for myself here on this subject .... when a dog of mine behaves anything like what your dog does as it reaches a shot bird , I turn myself around , whistle once to the dog to return .......then I walk AWAY from the dog in silence . Your bitch does have a desire to pick things up, including birds, you have "poisoned" that desire with far too much talking and command giving. Speaking personally I'd be administering the antidote to the "poison." I'd speak only once and train for a response !

I am genuinely sorry to give such blunt criticism, I'm not good at diplomacy but your worst enemy is your own tendency to give commands that the dog is sick and tired of hearing.

Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

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Re: A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

Post by fishvik » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:39 pm

Did you ever train with wings attached to a large dummy. She seems to not connect that this thing with feathers is ok to, and supposed to be retrieved.

Walk213
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Re: A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

Post by Walk213 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:37 am

Trekmoor wrote:O.K. .....I hope you are good at acccepting well meant criticism because that's about all I have to offer. There is absolutely nothing wrong ..........with the dog ! I found myself, as I watched the little film, wishing that someone would appear from the wings to put sticky tape over your mouth ! The dog is doing what I would do if someone rained commands and unnecessary instructions on me as I tried to do my job ........the poor bitch just switched itself "OFF" to you !

First of all let me say that I felt your shooting was dangerous to the dog..... not enough clearance between the dog and the charge of shot.

The other reply you had to your post gave good advice and I will now add a little bit more from a more "British" point of view. Do not tell a flushing breed to whoa ....it isn't a pointer. Stop giving the dog a plethora of commands ....you really only need no more than half a dozen ....or fewer !

Less is more where commanding a dog is concerned . I honestly do not give a dog any more commands during an entire day of shooting as you give for just one retrieve ....that still does not get done efficiently.

Speaking only for myself here on this subject .... when a dog of mine behaves anything like what your dog does as it reaches a shot bird , I turn myself around , whistle once to the dog to return .......then I walk AWAY from the dog in silence . Your bitch does have a desire to pick things up, including birds, you have "poisoned" that desire with far too much talking and command giving. Speaking personally I'd be administering the antidote to the "poison." I'd speak only once and train for a response !

I am genuinely sorry to give such blunt criticism, I'm not good at diplomacy but your worst enemy is your own tendency to give commands that the dog is sick and tired of hearing.

Bill T.
Thank you for the insight, Bill. I will work on getting better.

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Walk213
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Re: A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

Post by Walk213 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:38 am

fishvik wrote:Did you ever train with wings attached to a large dummy. She seems to not connect that this thing with feathers is ok to, and supposed to be retrieved.
We do and she seems opposed to fetching those bumpers at times. There are times she does retrieve the feathered bumper, and there are times when she just picks at the wings.

I appreciate the advice.

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crackerd
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Re: A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

Post by crackerd » Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:51 am

Walk213 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:38 am
fishvik wrote:Did you ever train with wings attached to a large dummy. She seems to not connect that this thing with feathers is ok to, and supposed to be retrieved.
We do and she seems opposed to fetching those bumpers at times. There are times she does retrieve the feathered bumper, and there are times when she just picks at the wings.

I appreciate the advice.
Describe the dog's "formalized training" and since you are self-admittedly NOT a gundog trainer, describe what kind of trainer delivered or imparted the dog's training. Your scenario isn't likely to embellish the trainer's CV, but naming is not necessary, just what kind of trainer this was, and his or her take on what's gone wrong with the training they did professionally with your dog.

MG

Walk213
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Re: A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

Post by Walk213 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:13 pm

crackerd wrote:
Walk213 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:38 am
fishvik wrote:Did you ever train with wings attached to a large dummy. She seems to not connect that this thing with feathers is ok to, and supposed to be retrieved.
We do and she seems opposed to fetching those bumpers at times. There are times she does retrieve the feathered bumper, and there are times when she just picks at the wings.

I appreciate the advice.
Describe the dog's "formalized training" and since you are self-admittedly NOT a gundog trainer, describe what kind of trainer delivered or imparted the dog's training. Your scenario isn't likely to embellish the trainer's CV, but naming is not necessary, just what kind of trainer this was, and his or her take on what's gone wrong with the training they did professionally with your dog.

MG
Describe the dog's "formalized training" and since you are self-admittedly NOT a gundog trainer, describe what kind of trainer delivered or imparted the dog's training. Your scenario isn't likely to embellish the trainer's CV, but naming is not necessary, just what kind of trainer this was, and his or her take on what's gone wrong with the training they did professionally with your dog.

MG,

My soon to be 5 year old lab, Echo was bred and trained by the same individual that bred and trained Josey. He is a good man, who I like. He did spend time with me teaching basics (with Echo). Obviously, I didn't learn effectively. That said, Echo is everything I want in a bird dog. Watch our videos and you will understand that we are an effective team.

My wife believes that Josey didn't receive the same level of training as Echo. Josey is very sensitive and she believes that our trainer gave up on her training early.

I will need to start from scratch and work with another professional. Expensive but necessary. I need to go beyond my comfort zone and learn more about the elements of training a bird dog.

Thank you.

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crackerd
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Re: A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

Post by crackerd » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:25 pm

Walk213 wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:13 pm

My wife believes that Josey didn't receive the same level of training as Echo. Josey is very sensitive and she believes that our trainer gave up on her training early.

I will need to start from scratch and work with another professional. Expensive but necessary. I need to go beyond my comfort zone and learn more about the elements of training a bird dog.
If you're going with another pro, choose carefully as Rick Hall advised on another forum. And maybe choose a retriever trainer this time. You've referenced your Labs as your "bird dogs" and my suspicion is you put them with someone who is not a retriever trainer but, well, I'm not sure what kind of training they got. But your scenario does not add up as far as a retriever trainer "giving up" on a Lab not wanting to do the simple act of retrieving birds, something 99% of Labs (and Boykins and Goldens and tollers and just about any other retrieving gundog breed) will do at 9-10 weeks old. Good luck getting up with a new trainer - I see elsewhere that you're based in Colorado. You got a couple, three (very) good CO retriever trainer listings here http://www.findretrievers.com/search/pr ... php?page=4 that might get you started - one of them in particular has a book that can give you a lot of insight into her training capabilities http://www.gundogsonline.com/dog-traini ... -hunt.html.

MG

Walk213
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Re: A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

Post by Walk213 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:42 pm

Thank you for the insight, MG. I will look into these options immediately.

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