What's your favorite bird dog training program?

[sns2]

Hey folks. I'm a Lab guy coming back into the world of shorthairs. I am looking for people's favorite training program for taking a pup through to a broke dog. I know that many simply train instinctively based on past experiences, but I am a linear thinker and like to map out where I am, where I am going, and how to get there if you know what I mean.

I am contemplating the Huntsmith, Perfect Start / Perfect Finish programs, as well as "Training with Mo."

I'd love to hear what you have used, and why you chose that route.

Thanks in advance for all responses.

[slistoe]

I think your money would be well spent on this book.
http://bcsetterpress.com/publications/

[bnew17]

I am in a similar situation so I cant offer any advice as far as experience, but i recently ordered the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish dvd series for my GWP and I am really excited about it. I have not started using it yet, just have watched it a few times. I scoured the internet for DVD's and I am not sure i read one negative thing about PS/PF. Jon is very detailed which is perfect for me. PS is way more detailed than some retriever dvd's i watched years back when I was working with my lab. Night and day difference. I will be keeping an eye out for what others have to say about what they recommend.

[crackerd]

Hey folks. I'm a Lab guy coming back into the world of shorthairs. I am looking for people's favorite training program for taking a pup through to a broke dog. I know that many simply train instinctively based on past experiences, but I am a linear thinker and like to map out where I am, where I am going, and how to get there

If you're coming back into the world of NAVHDA shorthairs, this http://www.ahdc.org/ahdcsite/training.php is unmatched for training progression (step-by program).

MG

[RayGubernat]

sns2 -

I have not listend to the Perfection Kennels tapes, so cannot really comment there. I also have not done the Huntsmith seminar thing, but have read Bill tarant's book on Delmar smith's training method. I have also read Martha Greenlee's book "Training with MO".

Over the years I have probably read well more than a dozen bird dog training books and some of them were not really worth the read. That being said, I have yet to read a bird dog training book that I did not get at least one gem of an idea regarding "how to".

For someone just beginning their journey into the world of bird dog training, I submit you need to focus on two behaviors primarily. The first behavior is that the dog MUST come when called. Every time... at fist call...and on the double. The second behavior is that the dog must stop dead in its tracks when commanded...and I mean grow roots and not move so much as a toenail. Those should be your goals.

If your dog is trained to do those two things, you will end up with a useful bird dog by letting the dog hunt and maintaining that training.

How you get from here to there with the dog is far more a matter of what works for you as an individual and what works to facilitate the dog's understanding of what it is you are asking it to do.

Jim Marti's method is VERY linear and is based on the trainer developing a series of skills in the dog, one by one and building the trained dog, skill by skill, brick by brick, from the ground up. His method for getting a dog steady to wing and shot leans primarlily on "stop to flush" techniques.

Paul Long's training method is pretty old school and is based on obedience type yardwork to instill the two main behaviors and then overlaying and transferring the interaction with birds with, in particular, the obedience command to stop and stand.

Mo Lindley's approach is similar to Mr. Long's, except that the bulk of his drills are done, hands on, in the field and are much less rote in nature. His methods are, by their nature, quite gentle and suitable for most any dog,even those that tend to be of a softer disposition.

There are several other ways to get from here to there with a bird dog and they all work... for some folks and some dogs, given that the trainer has the time, tools and persistence to follow the method through.

I suggest you get a copy of several training books and read them through. You will find a method you yourself are comfortable with and one which you have the time, necessary equipment, birds and available training land to execute. It is far better to find one method you are comfortable with and stick to it, that to bounce around...especially at first.

If you are not comfortable, are unsure of or hesitant with a method, or one aspect of a method, you will telegraph that to the dog and the dog will react accordingly...usually with a less than stellar outcome. If you are confident in your actions, the dog will have confidence in you and will often exceed expectations.

You need to remember that every time you interact with the dog...you are training it, whethere you intend to or not. You need to undertand what you are trying to convey to the dog, how you are going to work through the lesson, and what you want as the outcome of that specific training session.

You need to think about how to do what you are wanting to do, becasue timing is so very important. If you know what you want the dog to do, on cue, your timing will be vastly better and the dog will learn much more quickly.

Plan your work, then go out and work your plan.

Labs are different, in many ways, from pointing dogs. They can often take discipline that would shut many a pointing dog down. They can do repetitive drills, and ENJOY doing those drills(like retrieving drills), until your arm falls off. Some pointing dogs get bored with the drills much more easily and may start to resist.

If you choose a method and one portion of that method does not seem to be working for your particular dog or situation, rmember that you have read about several different ways to accomplish that one training task, so substituting a different method to train that one behavior, or "tweaking" the method slightly is always a possibility.

I do not follow any one method religiously. I personally use the "heel /whoa" drill from the Long book to instill the stop and stand response in the yard. I use a version of the Smith "wonder lead" intsead of the looped checkcord. I use a long checkcord and treats to instill the "here" or "come in" command, again in the yard. I transition away from the leads in both behaviors by overlaying an e-collar.

If a dog is having a difficult time grasping what I am trying to train, I will back up, go over the foundation work and try again. If that does not clear the roadblock, I will have researched and considered one or more alternate trainng approaches and go with a Plan B.

FWIW...of all the training books I have read, I think that Mo Lindley's might perhaps be the best for the new bird dog owner. Even if you decide to use another training approach, I encourage you to read his book for his insights into what goes on between their ears.

I also encourage you to read Paul Long's book. Over the course of the book he cautions the prospective trainer to "NOT DO" certain things. Toward the end of the book he devotes an entire chapter to correcting the things that happened when you did what he told you not to do in the first place.

RayG

P.S. There are a bunch of folks on this board who have been there and done that, so never be afraid to ask....

[SwitchGrassWPG]

Learn as much as you can from multiple programs and apply what works best for you and your dog. Remember, we don't have cookie cutter dogs, so why settle for cookie cutter programs. There's already been a number of programs mentioned...look at them all.

[oldbeek]

x-2 on Perfection Kennels.Also look for them on YouTube. During Covid they had a live program every Tuesday and Thursday at noon central time zone, on Face book. Look for them on FB. During the live shows they ask for questions and answer them. In the fall they take young dogs up to Dakotas to get on wild birds, so may not be live right now. Good luck. I enjoy training my own dogs.

[Coveyrise64]

Training with Mo

I'm familiar with all of the previous programs mentioned. Read the books, watched the DVD's, been to some of their clinics, and used parts of the methods in my training. The two thing that stands out with most methods is it takes a lot of birds but more importantly helpers. Mo Lindley trains mostly by himself is the reason I prefer his method.

cr

[sns2]

Thank you everyone for the helpful answers. Particularly, Ray. That was a lot of time to type that. Appreciated.

[ddoyle]

x3 on Perfection Kennels! They are a gift to the dog world....lots of videos and answers questions during the video.

[madmurph]

There is something about the Perfection Kennels program that stands out from the others and that is their extremely detailed step by step video instructions. It is by far the easiest program for a beginner trainer to follow. You will use a lot of birds in this program, so make sure that you have access to a good supply.

[jmez]

I'm a Paul Long fan. Very simple and to the point. Great resource.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[gonehuntin']

Do NOT use multiple programs. They many times conflict with each other. Pick ONE program and stay with it. Crackered recommended the Orange Book and that's a good one, but a little hard to understand. It is probably the most underrated book on the market.

I believe the best program on DVD is the Perfection Kennel series. It is a good, solid, program and easy to understand. They use a ton of birds but you can get around that.

Mo Lindley is a great trainer but truthfully, I haven't read his book. I'm GUESSING that is is one fine training book though because Mo is one heck of a trainer.

[Tim Tufts]

This will probably sound like a blast from the ancient past but I've always told customers that the best pre-training study is to read Robert Wehle's book "Wing and Shot."

[mask]

When a dog I have been working goes home with the owner I send the book Training With Mo home with them as well.