train a pup to check in more often

setterpup · Post by **setterpup** » Fri May 04, 2007 6:41 am

Hi all,

Great forum. I'm training my first hunting dog, a 11 month old english setter pup. Overall, he is an outstanding dog and we had a great first season. He holds points like a rock and is generally mindfull of my commands. My one complaint is that he doesn't check in enough. When we're in wide open sage brush flats of ID, it's no problem...I can see him (and he can see me) at 200 yards. However, if we get in more rolling terrain or timber (the snow is melting in the high country, so we're in the timber much more frequently now...on hikes or whatever), he tends to get lost unless I frequently whistle for him. I feel like it's my responsibility to constantly watch/listen for him, instead of the other way around. I know that it is a give and take and that I have some responsibility to let him know my location, but I also feel that I'm having to blow the whistle way too much. When I do whistle, he comes back about 90% of the time, which I think is pretty good for an 11 month old. Anyway, does anyone have any advice on how to get the pup to pay more attention to my location? Will this come with age? Should I stop calling him in so much and hide from him ocassionally? On those occasions when he doesn't check in, should I go after him and discipline him (verbally or with a spanking?), or wait for him to eventually come back and then ignore him? Thanks for the advice.

kiddcline · Post by **kiddcline** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:34 am

Take a shock collar and put it around his waste(make sure the prongs are on top of your pups behind.). You'll have to find a way to make it big enough. If he doesn't stop on the first whistle blow again at the same time you shock him. It will stop him and make him sit.

You can also take him out to a park, field, or even your yard and let him run around and give him random commands of sit, whoa, come. Random enough that he'll know one is coming but he doesn't know when. Soon he'll be looking back waiting to see if you'll want him to do something different.

Good luck

ohiogsp · Post by **ohiogsp** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:43 am

A shock collar maybe the answer but you should never shock a pointing to make him sit. If you do this you are asking for major problems.

kiddcline · Post by **kiddcline** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:46 am

My bad. I've only had labs and that's what is expected of them.

Goosehunterdog · Post by **Goosehunterdog** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:18 am

An e-collar would do the trick.Maybe one with an added beeper.

smilinicon · Post by **smilinicon** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:21 am

in controlled situations, I turn and go the other way a lot if I think she is taking off too far and not checking in.

I would think getting that recall up to 100% should be your goal, no?

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:25 am

IMHO using the e-collar to make your dog check in is setting yourself up for disaster.

Your dog is doign everythign you are asking of it and is doing just fine. Personaly if I were you I would rather spend the money ond buy a Tracker. Learn how to use it. And no more worries.

FWIW

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:47 am

I understand what you are saying but I think about it a different way.

he tends to get lost unless I frequently whistle for him.

Are you sure he is lost? Or is it you don't know where he is? My bet is he knows where you are.

I feel like it's my responsibility to constantly watch/listen for him, instead of the other way around.

My opinion is that you think it is his responsibility and not yours and I agree with you. You are watching/listening for him because you don't feel he is doing it. The chances are he is doing it but just not as often as you would like.

I know that it is a give and take and that I have some responsibility to let him know my location, but I also feel that I'm having to blow the whistle way too much.

This is probably true so maybe you can sing to him or if you really want him closer and more visable then the e-collar can be used or just keep calling him in and he will probably get the message. But the real problem is that both of you are wanting the same thing but you think he should do it oftener. Maybe a compromise will take place and he will check more often as he matures and you might just have more confidence in him and adjust to his schedule to some degree.

I'll bet he knows where you are even if you don't know where he is. And this will improve as he matures if you just keep turning him and going a different direction when he gets as far out as you want him. That forces him to check you more often.

Ezzy

Don · Post by **Don** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:49 am

I'm with Casper. Kinda sounds like your used to more control and not letting your dog do what it does. I don't want a pointing dog coming in to check with me and if you do that, you could end up with a yo-yo.

What kind of dog did you have befor this one and what kind of range did it have?

Goosehunterdog · Post by **Goosehunterdog** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:57 am

Great Advice??? I posted earlier that an e-collar would do the trick and then I saw a whole different perspective with the changing directions.I guess I shouldn't have jumped to the e-collar idea so fast without really thinking it through.I basically have always trained labs to where my wife has trained them all.She really gave me a going over for posting the e-collar recommendation.I have seen nothing but great advice from Ezzy,Don,casper and the rest.I guess I better let my wife post on the pointer threads from now on.Thanks for the great advice though everyone.I am learning the pointing training and apologise and have learned a Ton about pointers from you all.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:19 am

Personaly if I were you I would rather spend the money ond buy a Tracker. Learn how to use it. And no more worries.

Yah, I agree Casper. I think the Tracker classic goes for around $500, works great and fits right in your pocket or on your belt. Your dog is easily worth that much!! If you get one - practice, practice, practice - in a variety of places and terrains.

If I could only have one item to train with it would be a tracking collar hands down.

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:51 am

There is a Tracker Classic 2 on Ebay right now current bid is $350. Comes with a Supra Light collar. Heck of a deal for someone like yourself. Bidding ends for this item today.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:51 pm

The range at which you want a dog to work while hunting, and whether you want the dog to check back frequently, is a personal choice. As Doug and Casper know, I am more of the mind to let the dog roll just as they suggest. Checking back means the dog is covering the same ground twice, once when it goes out and a second time when it comes back.

But I am a foot hunter mainly, because that is what is available to us. So have trained many dogs to moderate their range. It is pretty simple. Put an ecollar on the dog, and when it hits the max range you want it at, give it a nick with the collar and use a short command. I use "hup" many just use the dog's name. When I say give it a nick, I really mean a nick. Many collars now have a momentary mode which generates a shock of a few tenths of a second. That is all you need for this purpose. Holding the button down and frying the dog serves no good purpose at all. Also, whatever you do, make sure the dog is moving and not standing on a bird when you nick it.

It will not take long for the dog to understand the max range you want out of it.

Personally, I prefer to put a tracker on them and let them roll. The purpose of the tracker for me is to know when they are on point, a point or strike collar will generate a signal in the receiver on your belt when there is a point. Way better than beepers etc. for a guy with old ears like mine. It is rare that we have to use the trackers to actually find a dog, and is usually one of three things. Close cover such as cattails where you cannot see a dog even 10' away. Weird weather such as fog where you cannot see the dog well, or strong winds where the dog cannot keep track of you. Or rank, young, running fools. Somewhere around three or four years of age, they lose the desire to run off and seem to figure out that it is more fun if they are somewhere in the general vicinity of you.

crittercontrol · Post by **crittercontrol** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:52 pm

This "trick" has worked for me.

When my pup is getting out too far or not paying attention I HIDE!

The idea being that the dog must search YOU out. They get scared, they panic, and when they find you, they are so relieved they decide "maybe its a better idea if I stay a little closer..."

Has worked thus far...

Ironhorse77 · Post by **Ironhorse77** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:27 am

I've always done the hide and seek thing as well. Works like a charm UNTIL they get old enough and decide they're too independent for that and don't give a crap. Then I've had success with a shock collar. Reinforcing COME or BACK or whatever also helps.

setterpup · Post by **setterpup** » Sun May 06, 2007 1:06 pm

Thanks for the advise guys.

This is my first hunting dog, so I'm still kinda working to figure out the range that I'm comfortable with. Since much of the hunting I do is in steep country, it's nice having the dog cover more of those hills so I don't have to. So since most of the time I think it's a benfit to have my dog range far, I think I'll look into the Tracker classic. That way, my mind will be more at ease. If I start thinking it would be better to have him closer, I'll look into a shock collar. I'll also keep working on the come command until I get a 100% response.

birdshot · Post by **birdshot** » Sun May 06, 2007 2:21 pm

i frequently hunt in sandhills, which are a series of small hills and draws. when i am at the bottom and the dog is nearing the crest, i whoa the dog until i get near the crest, so i can see which way they go or can direct them to the area/direction i wish to proceed. contrary to conventional wisdom i release from whoa, with an audible command or prompt. working up draws are the trickiest as i never can tell which direction the dogs have gone at the birifications. the locator tone helps if the wind is calm, (almost never during hunting season).

Vizsla Vince · Post by **Vizsla Vince** » Sun May 06, 2007 4:45 pm

Like CC, & Ironhorse, I've lately been "hiding" on my dog. Problem is, he's 17 mos old, & very comfortable running big. I may be too late with this scheme, although the couple of times I've tried it recently @ the forest preserves have yielded the result I was after. It takes a minute or two, but he eventually comes looking for me, seeming to be rather concerned for me, "Are you ok, daddy?" I need to do this alot more to see where it goes...

Gun Dog Forum

train a pup to check in more often

train a pup to check in more often

Shock collar

My bad