Hello all, first time poster here. I recently bought a yellow lab. She is 4 months old already and just a ball of energy. Anyway, I am thinking about using her for pheasant hunting once in a while and wondering how to tell if she is gunshy. I do not want to waste time and or money on training her if she will run and hide the first time she hears a gun blast. How do you get a dog over that fear of a loud bang? Any information on this will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all in advance.
Ryan
Introduction to guns
A lot of people do it while the dog is chashing a bird, I don't. If something goes wrong or the dog is a bit shy, the last thing I want it associating the sound with is the bird. What I do is to just take the dog for a walk and I carry a 22 rifle. Important it's a rifle. While the pup is off a ways investigating whatever I hold the muzzle a couple inchs off the ground and fire one shot. The ground greatly muffles the shot. watch the pup for any sign of nerviousness at all and ignor anything it does. No good boy and certainly no poor boy. For you nothing has happened. Take a good long walk a only fire a few well spaced shots. If the dog shows nerviousness, don't fire anymore that day but FINISH THE WALK. Just like nothing happened. The next time wait longer to do the shot and watch the pup. As the pup get's used to the sound, move the muzzle farther away from the ground.
Properly exposed, I've never seen a dog that was gun shy. I have seen dog's timid to a fault that noise just scares and it won't matter where it comes from. A dog that is gun shy was made that way with improper introduction.
I might add that those that use the several different methods we read about are not wrong, they just use a different program than I do. You will find with every method, you'll be told, or should be, to keep a close eye on the dog and don't overdo it in one session. Whichever way you do it, keep a close eye on your pup. Don't console him and don't praise him and don't quit the session at that point. Continue the walk even if you don't fire anymore.
Properly exposed, I've never seen a dog that was gun shy. I have seen dog's timid to a fault that noise just scares and it won't matter where it comes from. A dog that is gun shy was made that way with improper introduction.
I might add that those that use the several different methods we read about are not wrong, they just use a different program than I do. You will find with every method, you'll be told, or should be, to keep a close eye on the dog and don't overdo it in one session. Whichever way you do it, keep a close eye on your pup. Don't console him and don't praise him and don't quit the session at that point. Continue the walk even if you don't fire anymore.
Never set your dog up to fail - Delmar smith
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
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smilinicon
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:46 pm
- Location: Northwest Indiana
Casper,
You might have a point there. But everywhere I work dogs is either sandy or damp. I also don't point the gun at my feet, rather away from them.
On second though, you might have a point is wrong, you do have a good point! So I'll suggest another way I've done it but, you'll need a break action shotgun. Take an MTY case and punch out the primer. Then drill out the primer pocket with a 1/4" drill. It will now accept shotgun primer's by hand and they will fall out with a tap on the stock. Only bad part is that without the pressure, the back of the cases tend to start cupping a bit. But it is quiet and definately put's the gun there. I got the idea when I started doing finished dogs. Ciuldn't find blanks and the town would have had a fit if I'd been fireing them off here. So I did that and got the gun, pointed it at the flyaway bird and it still made some noise.
As for my experience doing it, forget it. Casper is right and there are other ways.
You might have a point there. But everywhere I work dogs is either sandy or damp. I also don't point the gun at my feet, rather away from them.
On second though, you might have a point is wrong, you do have a good point! So I'll suggest another way I've done it but, you'll need a break action shotgun. Take an MTY case and punch out the primer. Then drill out the primer pocket with a 1/4" drill. It will now accept shotgun primer's by hand and they will fall out with a tap on the stock. Only bad part is that without the pressure, the back of the cases tend to start cupping a bit. But it is quiet and definately put's the gun there. I got the idea when I started doing finished dogs. Ciuldn't find blanks and the town would have had a fit if I'd been fireing them off here. So I did that and got the gun, pointed it at the flyaway bird and it still made some noise.
As for my experience doing it, forget it. Casper is right and there are other ways.
Never set your dog up to fail - Delmar smith
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
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SeventhSon
Clicky:Az Draht wrote:Scroll up to the banners at the top of the page. Click on the CRK(Coon River Kennels) banner. Mark has a nicely written intro to gun under the tips and trick section.
http://www.coonriverkennels.com/pages/tips.asp
this is an answer I gave to A guy that had made his GSP afraid of the gun its not an exact answer to your question but outlines a good way to intro your dog to guns. He had foolishly taken the pup out to stand near some people shooting clays in a gravel pit "to see if it was gunshy"
here was my answer,
Forget the pot banging ect. Never ever ever shoot a gun around any dog especially a pup unless the pup is intent on a bird after having a lot of exposure to birds. You ever stop to think how loud a gunshot is in a gravel pit??
Now you need to start over
1)First you rushed things big time, put the gun away, then work the dog for a while on birds, get her birdy really talk her up after the flush with no gun shots, just work her on birds until she really shows she knows whats a bird is and is really birdy with great excitement. If she chases flushed birds thats good let her, in fact encourage it, let her know that finding and chasing birds is really a good thing.
2)then do the same thing for a week or two ( a lot of bird contacts and points )with the gun and no shells, let her get used to the sight of the gun until she ignores it and focuses completely on the birds.
3) then with a 22 rifle and the weakest blanks available, start shooting after the flush when shes chasing and really keyed up, shoot just once use a single shot bolt action 22 rifle,not a pistol, point the muzzle away from her and shoot only when shes really focused and chasing the flushed bird.
4) Shoot only once every two or three birds for the first week, until she pays no attention to it at all.
5) If she shows any fear or uncertainty go back to just bird work until she is focused on the birds again.
6)after she shows no sign of hearing the 22 with the light blanks shoot a pheasant use only one shot use a light load and make that shot count this part is important because she has to see the bird fall at the instant the shot occcurs, if you have her drive up that will overcome any residual fear she may have.
7) this fall only hunt her by yourself and try to never shoot more than once, do not hunt with multiple people
After a season she should be OK but I would be cautious even second season
You owe it to her, shes just confused and you made her that way, so please try to fix her.
Good luck take it slow birdiness is everything, if you have some more questions just let me know I've specalized in this training for over 30 years.
Tallgrassers comment about a ounce of prevention should be heeded this is a very good example of how dogs even out of the same litter can vary in boldness, its very easy to confuse even a bold pup with guns shots.
I don't allow gunshots around my dogs without birds present, even my older well broke dogs, not ever.
here was my answer,
Forget the pot banging ect. Never ever ever shoot a gun around any dog especially a pup unless the pup is intent on a bird after having a lot of exposure to birds. You ever stop to think how loud a gunshot is in a gravel pit??
Now you need to start over
1)First you rushed things big time, put the gun away, then work the dog for a while on birds, get her birdy really talk her up after the flush with no gun shots, just work her on birds until she really shows she knows whats a bird is and is really birdy with great excitement. If she chases flushed birds thats good let her, in fact encourage it, let her know that finding and chasing birds is really a good thing.
2)then do the same thing for a week or two ( a lot of bird contacts and points )with the gun and no shells, let her get used to the sight of the gun until she ignores it and focuses completely on the birds.
3) then with a 22 rifle and the weakest blanks available, start shooting after the flush when shes chasing and really keyed up, shoot just once use a single shot bolt action 22 rifle,not a pistol, point the muzzle away from her and shoot only when shes really focused and chasing the flushed bird.
4) Shoot only once every two or three birds for the first week, until she pays no attention to it at all.
5) If she shows any fear or uncertainty go back to just bird work until she is focused on the birds again.
6)after she shows no sign of hearing the 22 with the light blanks shoot a pheasant use only one shot use a light load and make that shot count this part is important because she has to see the bird fall at the instant the shot occcurs, if you have her drive up that will overcome any residual fear she may have.
7) this fall only hunt her by yourself and try to never shoot more than once, do not hunt with multiple people
After a season she should be OK but I would be cautious even second season
You owe it to her, shes just confused and you made her that way, so please try to fix her.
Good luck take it slow birdiness is everything, if you have some more questions just let me know I've specalized in this training for over 30 years.
Tallgrassers comment about a ounce of prevention should be heeded this is a very good example of how dogs even out of the same litter can vary in boldness, its very easy to confuse even a bold pup with guns shots.
I don't allow gunshots around my dogs without birds present, even my older well broke dogs, not ever.
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol
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Lab Man
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Stump
Well Ive done it the same on all the dogs Ive owned. I get them retreveing bumpers and while they are running after them I pop a starter pistol off right before they get to the bumper. It has worked for me on several dogs and Ive never had a gun shy one yet. But I am no pro trainer but its not that big of a deal if you take care and make it a happy experiance for the pup.
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Ryan29
getting used to the shout of a gun
Dear, i begin with the pups. when they are playing, i shoot with the toy revolver.
when the pups are 12 weeks and they are playing happily with each other outside then i take a rifle with subsonic munition, that is as half as loud as normal hunting munition and shoot in some distance of the pups. if anyone of the pups shows any reaction, i do not take notice from him at all, until they are playing again.
when the pups are already retrieving dummies, (mine do with 12 weeks-) i work with the dummie - launcher. the pups have to sit at their handlers feet, then i shoot with the dummie launcher and one pup after another are allowed, to retrieve one of the dummies. i had never any problems with shyness of shooting- noise.
in some cases, i got dogs, that were shy of shooting. i let them working and running in the field and always i shoot with rifle and subsonic shot.
i always could eliminate the problem.
when the pups are 12 weeks and they are playing happily with each other outside then i take a rifle with subsonic munition, that is as half as loud as normal hunting munition and shoot in some distance of the pups. if anyone of the pups shows any reaction, i do not take notice from him at all, until they are playing again.
when the pups are already retrieving dummies, (mine do with 12 weeks-) i work with the dummie - launcher. the pups have to sit at their handlers feet, then i shoot with the dummie launcher and one pup after another are allowed, to retrieve one of the dummies. i had never any problems with shyness of shooting- noise.
in some cases, i got dogs, that were shy of shooting. i let them working and running in the field and always i shoot with rifle and subsonic shot.
i always could eliminate the problem.
The woman, who plays with the pups
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Lab Man
I am not a believer in shooting around or making loud noises around puppies. I also feel its a big no no to take dogs to trap ranges. Dogs become gun shy when they dont understand the loud noise and become scared of it. I believe that you need to introduce gun fire to where they understand it and love it. I first get dogs to love birds, and I mean love birds. I then use birds to introduce gun fire. If the dog loves birds it will come to love gun fire because it knows it going to get something it loves.
Ryan29 wrote:So what does everyone think about taking the dog to the local trap house while there is people shooting? I am thinking get her in a very playful mood, take her there, I can still be about 100 yards or so away from the shooting, and just play and have fun with her. would that work?
thats a real bad idea that I strongly recommend you don't do,
the gunshots cannot be associated with birds and the chance is very real that the dog will end up gun shy. I never ever ever shoot guns,( even around my 10 year old seasoned dogs that have had lots of birds killed over them for years) if birds are not present.
Its just not worth the risk, I've had to cure several dogs from noise shyness because this was the method of intro to guns.
Do it right the first time and save yourself the possibility of some real problems.
Methods of intro to gun will vary with types of dogs but its always best abd safest to do when the dog is distracted by whatever their prey drive demands, retrieveing, birds flushing ect.
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol