Force Fetch & Gun Introduction

Texas Hooligan · Post by **Texas Hooligan** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:46 pm

I have a couple of questions that I wanted to get some clarification on. First I will give you a little background information on me and my dog. I have an 18 month old GSP. I got him from a kennel outside of Houston, I went down to look at some pups in late April that were going to be ready the second week of May and I met "Dublin" for the first time then. He was outside running around with about 10 other dogs. And out of nowhere he comes up to me and just won't leave me alone for about an hr. He followed me around the whole time I was there.

As time went on that day I picked out my puppy with Dublin by my side the whole time. I went home to Dallas later that afternoon and I couldn't stop thinking about Dublin and him just following me around. Two weeks later when I went back to pick up my puppy. Dublin was there on the front porch waiting for me, or so it appeared. I went inside and he was right there with me the whole time. I inquired to the breeder as to Dublin's story. She then proceeded to tell me that the person she sold him to just decided he didn't want him and brought him back to the breeder and left him. She then proceeded to tell me she didn't know what she was going to do with him. So here he sits on my living room floor like a king.

I have obedience trained him and he is near perfect. He loves the water and shows all natural hunting instincts, points on wings and will retrieves when he wants. He needs to be force fetched for sure and needs some work on steadiness.

My question is what methods have you used with the force fetch and what programs would you recommend? I would like to train him myself if possible but I need some help for sure. Any information you could give me would be greatly appreciated. I am not sure how or when to introduce the gun, what comes first Whoa, or the trained retrieve.

Dublin is conditioned on an eCollar as well, thinks that the collar meas time to go to the field. He is not a puppy so I am not sure on where to go, he can take pressure and has never showed any signs of aggression. He truly is the perfect pet, I just want to turn him into the perfect hunter too.

Please advise.

gr_elliott · Post by **gr_elliott** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:17 am

there are many programs to use, just pick one and stick with it....I have been following the perfection kennels tapes. super easy to follow for a beginner. my pup is also 18 months and will be fully broke and FF's here in about 6 weeks.

first time trainer

where did you get the dog from, my pup came from groveton which is north of houston.

Don · Post by **Don** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:54 am

After you watch the video's and read the books, do yourself and the dog a favor, Find someone you really trust that really knows how to force train and do it with that person. Someone right there to correct you and explain things right away is a huge advantage. A lot of guys pull off the go it alone routine. They also make a lot of mistakes they pay for with indigestion and the dog pays for with confusion and pain. In the end they usually get what they wanted but the confusion just isn't worth it. Often, the first timers quits in the middle of it and that's worse than not starting at all. It's not a hard process but it is a form of punishment training and you really should follow a certain procedure exactly.

Windyhills · Post by **Windyhills** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:47 am

Sounds like the dog is real friendly already, but if it were mine I would put FF training off for later, treat it just like a pup. Move through the progression of learning to hunt and feel comfortable getting out there a bit, introduce some birds, introduce the gun, do some hunting and/or kill some birds...then after all is going well, FF him. That may go pretty quick with this dog who sounds like he is already well on his way.

The other option might be to do as Don says and have someone else do it, but I would still fear that the pressure FF requires might be coming a bit early for this dog. At least that way, he wouldn't associate you with it.

Don · Post by **Don** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:40 am

I didn't mean do it for him. I ment to be there and guide him thru it. But do it for him would not be a bad idea either. Unless you do a bunch of dogs, you'll never get to be a good as you could be.

Texas Hooligan · Post by **Texas Hooligan** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:28 am

Thanks for the great info guys, I don't know anyone here in Dallas that does training so it will be a little hard for me to get someone to help me and I am a little leary when it comes to taking my dog to a trainer.

I got my dog in Conroe to answer that question

When and how should I introduce the gun? Should I take him with me dove hunting just so he can see some birds fall and get used to the shotgun in the field? Do I need to worry about him developing any bad habits?

Don · Post by **Don** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:34 pm

Don't do that. just take him for a walk with a 22 rifle. As he's off a bit snooping, hold the muzzle about 3" off the ground and fire one shot. Watch for any nerviousness. You might well find that he's already been shot around. Then he may well look back imediately to see what happened. don't confuse couriousity with nerviuosness. If it just doesn't bother him keep walking and after bit do it again. Whatever he does, ignor it and keep waliking. You make a deal out of it and it is, just ignor it and keep walking.

As you see the noise is not bothering him. raise the muzzle off the ground and let it crack a bit more. When your sure that doesn't bother him go out with a shotgun. Let him get out farther and fire one into the ground. Pay attention to his reactions all the time but, ignor them. He get's nervious, don't shoot any more that day but keep walking.

By the way, use the 22 rifle to help muffel the early shots just in case. Thats why you hold it near the ground.

Don't try to do it all in one day. Take a week and do a bit at a time. With some dogs, most in my experience, it's a quick process unless you scare heck out of the dog in the begining or if it's nervious, you make a big deal out of it. Don't ignor his reactions but do ignor the shot as tho it never happened. Keep walking.[/quote]

Texas Hooligan · Post by **Texas Hooligan** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:32 pm

Ok thanks Don, I will do that for sure and post back to let you know how he does. Any further Ideas on the force fetch? Should I be worried that the period of resentment may last longer with me because I am doing the training? The last thing I want to do is spoil a perfectly good bird dog due to my lack of knowledge.

Don · Post by **Don** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:10 pm

Done right there is no resentment when done. Soon after you start the dog usually goes down and it breaks your heart, don't quit and keep up the pressure. Later on when the dog is beating the pinch you will think it was all a bad dream. Just remember your not punishing the dog for not fetching, your teaching it to avoid the pinch. If you can find someone that knows how to do it close by, get hands on help. Saves a lot of grief.

Texas Hooligan · Post by **Texas Hooligan** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:34 pm

I will get all the info I can books, movies and what ever else I can get my hands on before I give it a go. Are there any systems you might recomend?

Don · Post by **Don** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:06 pm

I'm sure they all work but I'm comfortable with a force table, have one, and the ear pinch. My table is 24" off the floor 24" wide and 8' long. It has a solid top rail to hook the dog to to start and under that a tight cable and a pully to hook the dog to later. There is an adjustable leash and snap that attaches to the top rail or pully as neeeded.

flgunner · Post by **flgunner** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:12 pm

I would make sure that the dog has atleast seen some real good flying birds to make sure he is fire up and "birdy" before shooting around him. Atleast that has always been my procedure.

He sounds like he is ready and doing well for you, good luck!
Let us all know how he does with FF and the gun

Tejas · Post by **Tejas** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:29 pm

Hooligan,

I also am from the Dallas area and am also a member of the Lone Star GSP Club that is based in Dallas. The club has many friendly members that are usually willing to give advice/assistance. PM me and I will be glad to discuss with you.

Texas Hooligan · Post by **Texas Hooligan** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:56 pm

Tejas I pm'ed you, Don would you recommend and complete training programs? Or anyone else for that matter.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:22 pm

With the way you want to train him, check out the Dobbs website.

Texas Hooligan · Post by **Texas Hooligan** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:15 pm

hey don do you have any pics of your training table? I would really like to see it.

hubweims · Post by **hubweims** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:37 pm

tx hooligan,

did you get the puppy too, or just the dog you are talking about????

Texas Hooligan · Post by **Texas Hooligan** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:39 pm

just the dog I am talking about.