bringing up hardmouthed again

luke0927 · Post by **luke0927** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:02 pm

I had the thread a few weeks back about wondering about a dog being hardmouthed this is on a dog that will be 2 this spring and i am just getting serious with training on him....when i brought the question up i was using a frozen bird as a reward after training playing fetch....

Today i shot a live bird over him and he chewed it so hard that it ruined the breat on it i had to pop is mouth to make him drop it? I believe this all my fault because when he was younger he caught a few birds.....should im was about to start working whoa on him and getting him more time on birds should i do this or start to work on FF? Would FF even help enough to make him not chew it as hard. At this time i would say he was trying to eat that bird.

Don · Post by **Don** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:17 pm

There are a number of people that say FF won't work here, I'm not one. My normal FF routine is not especially severe, it's simply designed to make the dog retrieve on command. If I had a dog that simply wanted to fight it or a hard mouth dog, I up the pressure, much more severe.

I don't think I want to get into that here. It does amount to punishment training and I think it's best left to someone that understands what they are doing with it. Find a pro near you and take the dog there and see what he thinks.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:20 pm

My impression is that FF gives you a foundation to work with to prevent and or cure problems.

For example, what if the very first time you saw your dog start to maul a bird, you'd been able to command "hold" and have great confidence that the dog would obey?

I used to be anti-FF. After having done it once, all my dogs from here on out will be FF.

I got through my first time because my dog is a good sort and forgiving of my mistakes. I suggest that you seek a pro for help.

Best regards, Greg

romeo212000 · Post by **romeo212000** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:21 pm

you might try working with him on a freshly killed bird with a spike harness around it to teach him to chomp down just hard enough to carry it.

Don · Post by **Don** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:28 pm

I would not recommend a spike collar in the dogs mouth. You could well seriously injure the dog. Don't put anything in there that could possibily injure the dog.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:19 pm

A properply done FF can help

opefully Sharon potter come out with her force fetch which hs eworks with huntsmith
First thing she starts with is table work sacking out and getting the dog to give legs feet mouth all willingly
then moves on to introducing different objects in the mouth just holding not allowing rolling and discourcages mouthing
then when the dog is moving on the table and working the strat then she goes into the actual FF

I watched in a weekend seminar a wash out trial pointer become more confident just with the methods she showed as and we did on our own dogs

force fetch over all takes longer but her weeekdn seminar was very enlightening

But the point to this is yes part of a properly done force fetch is teaching the dog to hold not to mouth crucnh or spit the item out of the mouth

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:25 pm

Arlette,

I think Brenda has already published the procedure for FF. Might as well go straight to the pro.

Ezzy

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:11 pm

Ezzy Then why don't you post a link to Brendas article

brenda aka Snips is also a very good resource didn't know she posted one

Will have to save it to the favs

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:19 pm

Ibelieve it is still here in the article section. I know it has been for the past several years but the last I read it was when we were discussing it in our many threads about FF.

Ezzy

Don · Post by **Don** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:37 pm

Once again, I am not so sure this is something he should try on his own right now. If he has done the FF, I haven't heard of it. My guess is he hasn't and actually he's not needing to force the dog other than to solve a different serious problem, hard mouth. As I mentioned earlier, for a hard mouth dog, the program I do is more severe. If it's not, he'll likely not get the result he wants.

I strongly recommend going to a pro that knows how to get your dog where it needs to be or find someone that really knows the process and have him/her help.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:19 pm

Luke, I don't consider your dog hard mouthed in the traditional sense. He's more "Tough Mouthed". Force fetching will cure the problem as I told you before. You really have to know what you're doing here. I really recommend the dog be sent to a pro for six weeks, but if you can' afford it, do it yourself. Buy Smart Fetch first and follow it exactly.

The mistake Evan makes in it in my opinion, is letting that dog continually work his jaws on the bumper or roller and not stopping that. I NEVER would have let the dog get away with that. Just my opinion.

A hard mouthed dog actually will just stand there and tear the bird apart, maybe eating it as well. Then you have a problem. Don't let that happen.

luke0927 · Post by **luke0927** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:30 am

I would like to send him but i really cant spend the money right now. Im on my Dave Ramsey get out of debt plan and really have been keeping excess cost down...but if everyone things this is something a beginner shouldn't mess with i will look around and talk to some pro trainers and see what it would cost....is there anything i should do right now should i try some frozen birds and as soon as he starts to chew make him drop it? or would something like that be useless he was trained on hold?

DSemple · Post by **DSemple** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:25 pm

Luke - I agree with the earlier posts recommending professional help for force fetching, but in lieu of that I have found the Field Trialers and the Hunting Dog test people are alway willing to lend a hand. Tell the readers where you are at in Georgia?

Somebody will be willing to lend a hand, although I have never met anybody who likes the force fetch process. ...Don

Don · Post by **Don** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:25 pm

I would let it be till I could find someone to help. There are some amatures out there that are very good at FF. You might check with some breed clubs in your area. another idea may be to find a trainer needing a helper and see if you could make a trade of help for help.

If you continue to throw anything for the dog before fixing the problem, you simply keep encouraging the problem. The dog will likely chomp down on a frozen bird also, just not do as much damage. Then whem your back to the fresh killed bird, chomp!

snips · Post by **snips** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:25 pm

I would be happy to show you a few things on FF if you want to come up. I just finished an extremely HM female GSP that retrieves like a lady now:) I can give you some tips you can try with the Ecollar if you want to give me a call, hard to explain without talking to you. 706-764-2417

highcotton · Post by **highcotton** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:13 pm

It have done it with the collar when I really knew the dog. The timing has to be perfect.

luke0927 · Post by **luke0927** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:28 am

Thanks Brenda I'll be in touch!

Gun Dog Forum

bringing up hardmouthed again

bringing up hardmouthed again

Force Fetching