The Spaniel Spot

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:32 pm

polmaise wrote:
gundogguy wrote:
polmaise wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4JAE4csFh4
Ok Polmaise that is the absolutely the WORST video I have NEVER seen. Or maybe it is absolutely the BEST video have NEVER seen!

I was a bit 'premature' ! For legal reasons can't show it until Friday. But I would like your honest opinion when you do see it

Gundogguy, what's our suave Scots fellow trying unsuccessfully to air over there, Jack Buchanan "quartering" with aplomb in "The Bandwagon?"

MG

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:37 pm

polmaise wrote: I was a bit 'premature' ! For legal reasons can't show it until Friday. But I would like your honest opinion when you do see it

Now you have my attention

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:37 am

polmaise wrote:
gundogguy wrote:
polmaise wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4JAE4csFh4
Ok Polmaise that is the absolutely the WORST video I have NEVER seen. Or maybe it is absolutely the BEST video have NEVER seen!

I was a bit 'premature' ! For legal reasons can't show it until Friday. But I would like your honest opinion when you do see it

Good gosh, Many years ago I quit duck shooting due to "legal reasons "Let me check my schedule for Friday. If we are dealing with the law, Which Friday?

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:05 pm

Mr P it's Friday, let's see that video LOL

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:43 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:Mr P it's Friday, let's see that video LOL

I'm off to Crufts in the Morning , early start!..
See y'all next week. ...No worries Cass!..The clip was footage of the Spaniel Championship 2014.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:58 am

polmaise wrote: The clip was footage of the Spaniel Championship 2014.

2014 Springer Champs ? Cocker Champs ?

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:06 pm

Probably the springer ones Hal, they are up now on youtube by Paul French

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:47 am

polmaise wrote:
CDN_Cocker wrote:Mr P it's Friday, let's see that video LOL
I'm off to Crufts in the Morning , early start!..
See y'all next week. ...No worries Cass!..The clip was footage of the Spaniel Championship 2014.

Better yet, let's see the video of Gumbo the American cocker and the wee man's "entourage" at Crufts - c'mon, Robt., let us have it!

MG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:54 pm

S1010009.JPG

crackerd wrote:
polmaise wrote:
CDN_Cocker wrote:Mr P it's Friday, let's see that video LOL
I'm off to Crufts in the Morning , early start!..
See y'all next week. ...No worries Cass!..The clip was footage of the Spaniel Championship 2014.
Better yet, let's see the video of Gumbo the American cocker and the wee man's "entourage" at Crufts - c'mon, Robt., let us have it!

MG

Just uploading the footage of the 'Wee Man' who gained 3rd in AV Working Spaniel Gundog class at Crufts.

Gumbo crufts hold.jpg

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:18 am

I'm off to Crufts in the Morning , early start!..
See y'all next week. ...No worries Cass!..The clip was footage of the Spaniel Championship 2014.[/quote]

Better yet, let's see the video of Gumbo the American cocker and the wee man's "entourage" at Crufts - c'mon, Robt., let us have it!

MG[/quote]
Just uploading the footage of the 'Wee Man' who gained 3rd in AV Working Spaniel Gundog class at Crufts.

Gumbo crufts hold.jpg

[/quote]

Very Nice, Polmaise! Me Wife and I went to Crufts in 96.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:28 am

crackerd wrote: Better yet, let's see the video of Gumbo the American cocker and the wee man's "entourage" at Crufts - c'mon, Robt., let us have it!

MG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNar3t2EoVI

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:23 pm

Is that Pam in her Barbie, er Barbour doll outfit?

I tell you, Gundogguy, we're training spaniels in the wrong country....

MG

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:32 pm

crackerd wrote:Is that Pam in her Barbie, er Barbour doll outfit?

I tell you, Gundogguy, we're training spaniels in the wrong country....

MG

No kidding.....

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:38 pm

crackerd wrote:Is that Pam in her Barbie, er Barbour doll outfit?

I tell you, Gundogguy, we're training spaniels in the wrong country....

MG

Yup!..Change of clothes and venue ,and if the training is right!..The dog and handler should be able to do both

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWjypaqW36o

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:42 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:
crackerd wrote:Is that Pam in her Barbie, er Barbour doll outfit?

I tell you, Gundogguy, we're training spaniels in the wrong country....
No kidding.....

You stay right where you are, whippersnapper - and keep your bloody cocker in Canada...

Us old guys - old guys on the lam from trouble and strife, as they say in cockney slang - deserve the opportunity to get our passports ready for takeoff. A bold flush, if you will.

MG

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:22 pm

As long as it is a "bold flush" and not a "trap".
Mike

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:50 pm

crackerd wrote:Is that Pam in her Barbie, er Barbour doll outfit?

I tell you, Gundogguy, we're training spaniels in the wrong country....

MG

Crackerd , your on your own there. I know where my breads buttered after 40 yrs. here Nancy Jo and our AFC Blaze and CH Moxie
and out with the boys on a rough shoot in Wales.

bravo2 · Post by **bravo2** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:08 pm

I have a golden retriever that's a tear old and two springer spaniel pups that's 10 weeks old. I plan on bird hunting all three. None has had any training.
My goals are that I would like to use the retriever for duck hunting and pheasant and chukar, maybe grouse. The springers I want to train them for dove, quail, possible chukar and grouse. Don't know if pheasant to big or not for them. I plan on trainer the retriever first due to age. The springers shortly after.
I would like to see a spaniel section myself on the board and also a retriever section. Anyone close to East, TN?

bravo2 · Post by **bravo2** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:27 pm

I would like to see a spaniel section and retriever section. I do own both.
I have a 1 yr old golden retriever I need to get started on its bird training. I would like him to do ducks and pheasants primarily, but chukar and maybe grouse if possible.
I also just gotten two springer spaniel pups and they are 10 weeks old. I had them 3 weeks now. I want to train them for dove and quail. Maybe grouse and chukar if possible. My oldest son and I really want to go wide open in bird hunting. Rabbits would be nice also plenty around the house, lol. I'm in east TN and looking for reasonable
Great dog training. I don't care to do some myself but think doing all would end up being to much. I have three kids two are small besides working which I work thirds as I'm a LEO. Any advice and thoughts welcomed. I will show dog pics soon as I can.

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:44 am

Hey Crackerd,
I always like your photos. How about some video?

Mike

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:21 am

crackerd wrote: I tell you, Gundogguy, we're training spaniels in the wrong country....

MG

Don't know of 'ANY' from that side resident and successful over here, but plenty of our's over there

Unless, y'all know different

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:48 am

polmaise wrote:
crackerd wrote:Is that Pam in her Barbie, er Barbour doll outfit?

I tell you, Gundogguy, we're training spaniels in the wrong country....

MG
Yup!..Change of clothes and venue ,and if the training is right!..The dog and handler should be able to do both
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWjypaqW36o

I surrender though I donot have a white flag. I not quite sure but I doubt I'll be adding that technique to may training program any time soon. Do the flags keep the dogs moving or are they used to flush the birds, or are they to remind the guns that you will give up without a fuss?? Nice video! Though now it is understandable why there so many misunderstandings when we all try to communicate cultural uses of our dogs. I never saw it done quite that way when we were in Wales, during the mid 90's

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:32 pm

The flags have nothing to do with the dogs. They are used to flush game or to move game forward towards a "flushing point." Some shoots don't allow dogs to hunt and those shoots, often over open ground, use beaters with flags for most of the beating that takes place. Other shoots use flags and dogs and on some shoots the beaters tap the trees with their sticks or rattle wooden "clappers" to flush birds or move them towards a flushing point.

Much depends on the type of ground , the individual likes of keepers and landowners as to what method of beating is used. Out of control dogs are not appreciated especially on shoots with a few thousand birds on the ground but out of control dogs are very often seen just the same.

I can think of two shoots down in the hills of the Scottish borders where out of control beaters dogs are , for the most part, welcomed. Those shoots both have many acres of steeply sloping hillside covered all over with very thick and nasty gorse bushes (do you have gorse in America ?) . It is the dogs job to penetrate those thickets and chase out the pheasants . The folk with well behaved spaniels and especially the field trial lads keep their dogs out of that stuff. A dog going into there is on it's own. The handler cannot enter the thickets and could not see his dog even 6 feet away if he could enter the thickets. It would ruin a good field trial dog.

For some forms of beating an old , fat Labrador can easily do the job and many labs are used as beaters dogs here. Quite often those labs are harder to keep under control than the spaniels seem to be.....maybe the spaniels get trained as beating dogs and the labs are not ?

Bill T.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:15 am

Thanks Trekmoor for the explanation!
At what point in the dogs training are they introduce to the flags and tree tapping? I have used "healing sticks" for a number of years, mostly retriever work though on occasion have carried one in the field when spaniel training, if I thought it was necessary to influence me dog. Influence was possible because the dog had been introduce to stick in a previous session.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:20 am

All too often a pups first introduction to the flags and tree tapping done in a beating line comes it's way with no introduction at all . It is done at the shoots themselves, it is "on the job" training and it is very seldom I hear of dogs having problems with flags etc. when they get chucked in at the deep end and left to sink or swim. I think it probably helps a great deal that the dogs are finding and flushing birds and all the other dogs present in the beating line are in a high state of excitement. If anything, the sound of the flags flapping and the sticks tapping just adds to the dogs excitement levels.

As a picker up I am well away from the beating lines noise but my dogs sitting beside me will be getting more agitated as the line of beaters gets nearer and the noise levels increase and the birds begin to fly over and the guns begin banging away. Very often neither I nor my my dogs can see the beating line or even see the guns but it is easily possible to tell how close the beaters are getting by the noise.
As drives come to near their end it is sometimes possible to hear the keeper(s) yelling to the beaters to get their dogs back in. This is done to avoid a mass flush which is what often happens if 10 -20 hunt crazed dogs are still out there running about near the end of drives. Either all the dogs get called back in to heel and put on a lead if necessary or a few of the more easily controlled dogs are permitted to hunt in order to flush the birds out in ones and twos .... a controlled flush in other words. If that is not done then the sky will fill with birds and the guns at the pegs will only get one chance at shooting at them as they fly over.

There is a bit more thought goes into beating than most people think and the keepers are there to ensure all goes well ....or as well as is possible !

A good keeper is likely to know the strengths and weaknesses of most of the beaters and their dogs in his team. The keepers also make mental note of the pickers up and their dogs too .... I have seen both beaters and pickers-up politely ....or sometimes not so politely, told not to come back to the shoot.

A good keeper is worth every penny he gets.

Bill T.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:30 am

Great stuff, Bill - ta for taking us through it. Much enjoyed.

MG

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:54 am

bravo2 wrote:I have a golden retriever that's a tear old and two springer spaniel pups that's 10 weeks old. I plan on bird hunting all three. None has had any training.
My goals are that I would like to use the retriever for duck hunting and pheasant and chukar, maybe grouse. The springers I want to train them for dove, quail, possible chukar and grouse. Don't know if pheasant to big or not for them. I plan on trainer the retriever first due to age. The springers shortly after.
I would like to see a spaniel section myself on the board and also a retriever section. Anyone close to East, TN?

Welcome to the Spot. My first impression is you have a tall order in training 3 dogs at the same time. Unless you are a practicing Pro. The first order of business is developing the retrieve in all 3 pups do not wait. Do not concern yourself with what type of game for this dog and that dog, you did not mention alligators, so the dogs you own are capable of hunting all of the game listed. I know because the my spaniels and the Golden's I have trained do and did a fine job. Contact Evan Graham here on this site he has a grea6t program for the do it yourselfer dog training. It is a formula that if followed one will have a fine hunting dog regardless of breed. His "Smart Works Program" is just the best there is for the hunting dog owner. Best of luck!

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:26 am

I agree with Gundogguy, your springers will easily cope with retrieving pheasants. Cockers are smaller than springers and they retrieve pheasants .
I don't know how you will find the time and maybe the energy to train the pups however ! If you try taking them all out together it is likely that you will get nowhere fast !

Bill T.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:25 am

Wishing everyone a Happy St. Paddy's day on the Spot! Slainte!

sean english · Post by **sean english** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:05 pm

Glad to see we spaniels finally got our own "Kennel".
My Chelsea is 16 months old. I got her when she was like 9 weeks old without much knowledge about dog training. I watched videos, read books and yes, became a member of this website.
Other dog owners (not spaniel owners) have been impressed by what I have accomplished. For them, a dog who responds to whistle, is an amazing accomplishment. And I accomplished that in the first couple of months. She sits, retrieves her bumper (blind) heels, and loves to hunt.
The only issue I have is that from very young age, she ranged far and I didnt really do much to curb that behavior. I wanted her to play and get exercise and develop her hunting instincts. I still run her once or twice a day and think she needs the exercise that she wouldnt get if I want to keep her just going circles around me.
I am thinking of introducing her to shock collar to keep her in range.
Any input is appreciated. I will later post some videos of her on youtube and have you see for yourself.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:55 am

sean english wrote:Glad to see we spaniels finally got our own "Kennel".
My Chelsea is 16 months old. I got her when she was like 9 weeks old without much knowledge about dog training. I watched videos, read books and yes, became a member of this website.
Other dog owners (not spaniel owners) have been impressed by what I have accomplished. For them, a dog who responds to whistle, is an amazing accomplishment. And I accomplished that in the first couple of months. She sits, retrieves her bumper (blind) heels, and loves to hunt.
The only issue I have is that from very young age, she ranged far and I didnt really do much to curb that behavior. I wanted her to play and get exercise and develop her hunting instincts. I still run her once or twice a day and think she needs the exercise that she wouldnt get if I want to keep her just going circles around me.
I am thinking of introducing her to shock collar to keep her in range.
Any input is appreciated. I will later post some videos of her on youtube and have you see for yourself.

Ok Then Sean welcome.
I'll get right to the issue, like most new owners you have the cart before the horse so speak. The e collar is not a fix all tool, in the wrong situation it can destroy a dog. get some help. In California the best spaniel guy that train with the e collar is Gary Breitbart Go to face book and find him. https://www.facebook.com/gary.breitbarth.12?fref=ts
You are at point with your little dog it will take some real knowledgably help. Best of luck!
I believe there are 5 spaniel clubs in your state.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:31 am

Sean, I can't advise about e-collars , I don't know enough about them but I do have a lot of experience of getting spaniels that hunt wide to hunt closer in . Every one of my 3 cockers hunts wide, very wide. The work I do with them all winter long encourages wide hunting. If I want to compete in tests with them during the summer I go back to basics to greatly decrease the hunting ranges.

The reason dogs run wide is that they are not finding game close to you , they "pull out" to try to find game at longer distances from you. You have to reverse the dogs thought processes about this, you have to supply the dog with "finds" close to your feet as you walk along. My dogs will hunt for and retrieve tennis balls hidden in the form of a "lane" along which I hunt the dogs. The dogs do not get to see the lane being made, they never see the balls prior to finding them. The "lane" is , at most about 30 -40 FEET wide , not yards and I walk up the centre of it as the dog hunts up to 20 feet to either side of me.

If your dog has a liking for tenis balls this works O.K. so I make sure my dogs love retrieving them. In America you could do things a bit differently by planting live pigeons for the dog to find close to you. The birds could be dizzied and some might get caught by the dog while others would give a flush.
I cannot legally do that here , we have a law prohibiting setting dogs onto creatures in that way .... I think ...it is a bit of a grey area ! There is no reason it would not work for you if you have a supply of pigeons and if you keep the length of the hunts short in both distance and time.

You need to train to much shorter ranges than you would allow during "real" hunting. If your spaniel is habitually hunting 30-40 yards out then in training insist upon only a few feet and train for a really good turn to whistle . It will look far too little a distance to you but I think I can assure you than when real hunting resumes the dog will begin to pull out again ....but maybe not as far as it did before.

Bill T.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:50 pm

Hey Gundogguy'..I've replied to your pm!..I know you don't check them often

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:51 pm

polmaise wrote:Hey Gundogguy'..I've replied to your pm!..I know you don't check them often

Thanks for heads-up, sometimes I need a kick in pants!

UplandJim · Post by **UplandJim** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:53 pm

Does anyone have any or know of any good mock(or real) trial video?

I'm looking to see good style. Doesn't matter if it's english or american style. I'm looking for bracing, flush/steady/retrieve type stuff. You know, what you would expect at a AKC Field Trial.

ps: I haven't been on here in a while but I've fixed my pups tendency to circle me on the retrieve, he now brings it to me and sits promptly. Pretty simple solution.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:57 am

UplandJim wrote:Does anyone have any or know of any good mock(or real) trial video?

I'm looking to see good style. Doesn't matter if it's english or american style. I'm looking for bracing, flush/steady/retrieve type stuff. You know, what you would expect at a AKC Field Trial.

ps: I haven't been on here in a while but I've fixed my pups tendency to circle me on the retrieve, he now brings it to me and sits promptly. Pretty simple solution.

Quite honestly there is not a lot of AKC springer or cocker trial video out. It is more due to a logistical problem. The logistics being taking video of a trial in good cover would mean seeing very little dog work, because of the cover density,height rugginess. Literally most of the video out there is done on training situations where the dogs actions can be see, by the camera. The Outdoor Chanel did a TV show on spaniel trialing a few years back, they were most frustrated by the conditions they were up against. If you knew the game it was and entertaining production, if not folks would have been lost.

Cocker trial AA trial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7b_RgCFPIs You will not see much

Springer Puppy stake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAn3V6i5kAg you will see a little more

Polmaise has a nice piece of the Championship maybe he would PM it to you!

Go to a trial and live it

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:39 am

UplandJim wrote:Does anyone have any or know of any good mock(or real) trial video?

I'm looking to see good style. Doesn't matter if it's english or american style. I'm looking for bracing, flush/steady/retrieve type stuff. You know, what you would expect at a AKC Field Trial.

ps: I haven't been on here in a while but I've fixed my pups tendency to circle me on the retrieve, he now brings it to me and sits promptly. Pretty simple solution.

Mid-Atlantic Springer Field Trial
Hillendale Hunting Club
941 Morrow Road
Tyrone, PA 16686
This licensed Field Trial is held under the Rules and Procedures
March 29 and 30

UplandJim · Post by **UplandJim** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:25 pm

gundogguy wrote:
UplandJim wrote:Does anyone have any or know of any good mock(or real) trial video?

I'm looking to see good style. Doesn't matter if it's english or american style. I'm looking for bracing, flush/steady/retrieve type stuff. You know, what you would expect at a AKC Field Trial.

ps: I haven't been on here in a while but I've fixed my pups tendency to circle me on the retrieve, he now brings it to me and sits promptly. Pretty simple solution.

Mid-Atlantic Springer Field Trial
Hillendale Hunting Club
941 Morrow Road
Tyrone, PA 16686
This licensed Field Trial is held under the Rules and Procedures
March 29 and 30

Thanks gundogguy. I couldn't make it to that one but there is a Cocker trial April 12-13 in Blue Ridge Summit, PA held by the Mason Dixon English Cocker Spaniel Club

Also, the National Cocker Championship is in Tyrone, PA this year. Woot!

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:11 am

UplandJim wrote: Also, the National Cocker Championship is in Tyrone, PA this year. Woot!

You mean Montlerville, PA, right?

Gundogguy, until I got "my own water" for training, that five-hour drive to Montler's made for a real flight of fancy. Nelson Sills

as almost always on the designing end of it.

MG

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:16 am

UplandJim wrote:Does anyone have any or know of any good mock(or real) trial video?

I'm looking to see good style.

Upland Jim, What is it about Spaniel style your hoping to see? There is a big difference between Springer or Cocker style?

UplandJim · Post by **UplandJim** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:22 pm

crackerd wrote:
UplandJim wrote: Also, the National Cocker Championship is in Tyrone, PA this year. Woot!
You mean Montlerville, PA, right?

It's in Tyrone, PA dude.

UplandJim · Post by **UplandJim** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:45 pm

gundogguy wrote:
UplandJim wrote:Does anyone have any or know of any good mock(or real) trial video?

I'm looking to see good style.

Upland Jim, What is it about Spaniel style your hoping to see? There is a big difference between Springer or Cocker style?

I don't know. That's what I'm hoping to see

I prefer cockers because I have one.

I have a very limited amount of time to devote to my field trialing pursuits so that's why I choose cocker trials. I would like to see springers too but not ones that are barrel trained. Trust me, if I didn't have kids I'd go to every AKC spaniel trial within five hours of me.

Thanks again for letting me know about the Springer trial in Tyrone this weekend even though I could make it.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:04 am

UplandJim wrote:I don't know. That's what I'm hoping to see

UplandJim wrote:
crackerd wrote:
UplandJim wrote: Also, the National Cocker Championship is in Tyrone, PA this year. Woot!
You mean Montlerville, PA, right?
It's in Tyrone, PA dude.

When you don't know what you don't know (and what you're "hoping to see"), you oughtn't "dude" somebody who might know what you don't...

MG

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:46 am

UplandJim wrote:
gundogguy wrote:
UplandJim wrote:

Upland Jim, What is it about Spaniel style your hoping to see? There is a big difference between Springer or Cocker style?
I don't know. That's what I'm hoping to see

I prefer cockers because I have one. I have a very limited amount of time to devote to my field trialing pursuits so that's why I choose cocker trials. I would like to see springers too but not ones that are barrel trained. .

That's fine. Now I do have another question. I have trained Spaniels all over the USA with folks from every corner of the country. I have also spent time in the UK and trained with Welsh and English trainers. So here is my question, what is a barrel trained springer? and why would you not want to see a barrel trained springer work?
Hopefully you can find a spaniel group to train with in your local area!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:46 am

UplandJim wrote:
gundogguy wrote:
UplandJim wrote:

Upland Jim, What is it about Spaniel style your hoping to see? There is a big difference between Springer or Cocker style?
I don't know. That's what I'm hoping to see

I prefer cockers because I have one. I have a very limited amount of time to devote to my field trialing pursuits so that's why I choose cocker trials. I would like to see springers too but not ones that are barrel trained. .

That's fine. Now I do have another question. I have trained Spaniels all over the USA with folks from every corner of the country. I have also spent time in the UK and trained with Welsh and English trainers. So here is my question, what is a barrel trained springer? and why would you not want to see a barrel trained springer work?
Hopefully you can find a spaniel group to train with in your local area!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:31 am

Hey guys, I know some of you are still getting pounded with snow but we're finally getting temps in the 5-10 C range this week! Snow is melting like crazy! Which got me to thinking - how do you guys get your dogs back into the training mindset (if you don't train through the winter) and get them back in peak condition? I took the winter off training with Jake other than basic manners around the house and the odd fun retrieve but he has definitely slipped over the winter. I took him out the other day to do some marks and basic obedience and he was nowhere near how he was in the fall. He also seemed to get stressed out quick and unraveled so I called it a day fast. Just didn't have the same focus as he did when he was training all the time. For example I took the tennis ball "huck it" out so give him some fun marks and he couldn't mark the side of a barn LOL. He either wouldn't follow it or would mark it incorrectly and stop short. He was amped up to retrieve the tennis balls, just didn't have the concentration to watch its trajectory. So, let's start a discussion! How do you get back into the swing of training? Do you start at the beginning and sharpen up basic commands before getting back to where you were? What would your training schedule look like?

UplandJim · Post by **UplandJim** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:54 am

gundogguy wrote: That's fine. Now I do have another question. I have trained Spaniels all over the USA with folks from every corner of the country. I have also spent time in the UK and trained with Welsh and English trainers. So here is my question, what is a barrel trained springer? and why would you not want to see a barrel trained springer work?
Hopefully you can find a spaniel group to train with in your local area!

Sorry, I meant bucket trained. If that doesn't ring a bell watch this video around the seven minute mark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXfpfh39kKI

It may not be very prevalent.

I'd like to think well bred spaniels would be able to quarter/hunt naturally, being more desirable to watch than a robotic back and forth.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:55 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:Hey guys, I know some of you are still getting pounded with snow but we're finally getting temps in the 5-10 C range this week! Snow is melting like crazy! Which got me to thinking - how do you guys get your dogs back into the training mindset (if you don't train through the winter) and get them back in peak condition? I took the winter off training with Jake other than basic manners around the house and the odd fun retrieve but he has definitely slipped over the winter. I took him out the other day to do some marks and basic obedience and he was nowhere near how he was in the fall. He also seemed to get stressed out quick and unraveled so I called it a day fast. Just didn't have the same focus as he did when he was training all the time. For example I took the tennis ball "huck it" out so give him some fun marks and he couldn't mark the side of a barn LOL. He either wouldn't follow it or would mark it incorrectly and stop short. He was amped up to retrieve the tennis balls, just didn't have the concentration to watch its trajectory. So, let's start a discussion! How do you get back into the swing of training? Do you start at the beginning and sharpen up basic commands before getting back to where you were? What would your training schedule look like?

My usual warm-up drill is one that covers a number of behaviors all in a very concise manner. I'm not looking to teach in this exercise only to strengthen known behaviors that have been learned previously. Those behaviors are these Steadiness, marking, bumper in mouth marking memory, delivery and state of mind. I usually do these just prior to bird work and or some period of time in which I want to instruct a new behavior.
It has been a long winter here in Michigan as well and the mud is much appreciated by me dogs and me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PhvLWEZMPM

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:08 pm

UplandJim wrote:
gundogguy wrote: That's fine. Now I do have another question. I have trained Spaniels all over the USA with folks from every corner of the country. I have also spent time in the UK and trained with Welsh and English trainers. So here is my question, what is a barrel trained springer? and why would you not want to see a barrel trained springer work?
Hopefully you can find a spaniel group to train with in your local area!
Sorry, I meant bucket trained. If that doesn't ring a bell watch this video around the seven minute mark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXfpfh39kKI

It may not be very prevalent.

I'd like to think well bred spaniels would be able to quarter/hunt naturally, being more desirable to watch than a robotic back and forth.

Thanks for the video I know the drill well now. Field trials are about precision at longe range and preciseness in effort. If you were to attend a trial I'll guarantee you could not tell whether or not the dogs running had been trained on the "bucket drill".
When dogs are campaigned in this country it is a rather expensive process, $600-$700 month training, $100-200 training birds and then trial entry 110-130 @trial plus travel expenses divide by the dogs on the truck. Dog may be on that truck for months and months The successful Pro leaves no stone uncovered in the process of training the dog to it's full potential. Pros that train based on generalized stereotypical thinking and personal likes and dislikes do not stay in business long.
The Bucket system was developed in conjunction with the Place board training system. It has it's place in developing a young dogs attitude in learning how to cover the ground properly. It can be very effective and will not turn a dog in to a robotron quartering machine, however it develops a dog that is strong in the corners and takes the necessary ground turning into the wind to be a success. Because it contributes to the dogs confidence it rather enhances style.
Donot knock it if you have not tried it.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:13 pm

UplandJim wrote:
I'd like to think well bred spaniels would be able to quarter/hunt naturally, being more desirable to watch than a robotic back and forth.

Bucket/Barrel/call it what you want.
If it's cockers doing some 'Au-Naturalle '?..Here is my very good friend and a ''True Gentleman'' of our sport over here.He was also the very First winner of the 'Polmaise Cup'
But that may be a 'Bridge Too Far' for you just yet 'Jim'?.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHR_qrgMobM