The Spaniel Spot

[polmaise]

They ' tell me you are good guy . Gundogguy
Nice vid, but probably not long enough for all to enjoy.

We don't use much word's here, and in answer to some others questions on this thread with all game types, ..a flush is a flush, and a chase is unsafe!
The shooting is more accurate and the retrieving is more precise, and heck...the flushing is a whole lot more exciting when you get the dog to flush it within range

These two, are both 18 month old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGjtm6ulIAw

[CDN_Cocker]

Another good day out in the woods! Jake is a hunting machine! Flushed 4 grouse and even a woodcock! I only managed to knock down 1 grouse though!

[polmaise]

Did you shoot at all flushed Cass?..and did the wee champion stop at all them flushes?.and the one that was killed?..what happened there?
Only part of a good a story ,I'd love to hear.

[CDN_Cocker]

Details to follow....

[gundogguy]

They ' tell me you are good guy . Gundogguy
Nice vid, but probably not long enough for all to enjoy.

We don't use much word's here, and in answer to some others questions on this thread with all game types, ..a flush is a flush, and a chase is unsafe!
The shooting is more accurate and the retrieving is more precise, and heck...the flushing is a whole lot more exciting when you get the dog to flush it within range

These two, are both 18 month old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGjtm6ulIAw

Nice rabbit work donot see much of that here in the States, I prolly have taken 4 rabbits in the last 30 yrs, Not a lot of opportunity or desire on my part. Here is our 13 month springer at a Sunday training session of out spaniel club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7QXYQOeR3U

[gundogguy]

Now that's a cute pup! Here's the most recent one of Jake, and the second is him and our mini dachshund Lily.

So Now Cass which is it? Place boards are good to use? or are they old hat? Me thinks you speak out of both sides of your mouth, on this subject. .

[CDN_Cocker]

Lol Hal I did use them for his foundation training but now he just gets on them for those kodak moments lol. I do tge odd drill with them just because I have them. Just not as focused on them as I once was

[polmaise]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7QXYQOeR3U

That looks a whole lot better! ..some over here would say the dog was just running around looking for something,and agitating the ground . The clip was 'cut' at one point? ..did the wee pup 'run in'?..I don't know...but I personally would give it the benefit of the doubt.
Rabbit's btw , are a higher distraction running, than a bird flying'?..but hey I ain't talking semantics, just shooting the breeze!.
There ain't no right or wrong, just hunting!...some do it ,and some don't

[CDN_Cocker]

Alright polmaise - now that I'm on my computer.... We started the day in the same area we hunted Monday when he got his first. Within minutes he flushed his first and I made him sit. I never got a proper shot at the bird but fired off a round anyways for the association. He had a couple more similar flushes but due to the cover and the fact that we still have so many leaves on the trees I didn't get shots, so just fired one in the air each time. At one point he was working a patch of spruce that was surrounded by popples and maple and he flushed a woodcock - the first I've ever seen!!!!!! I fired off a shot but don't think I was even close hahaha I was just in pure amazement. So much so that I forgot to whistle him to sit. He stopped on his own to the flush but he was standing, not sitting. The next, and final bird was the grouse that we shot. We stopped for walking for a second while Jake was drinking and a grouse took off from a branch overhead that I hadn't even seen! I told Jake to hunt em up and away he went. A couple minutes later he flushed a bird (I believe it was the same one) and I whistled for him to sit and pulled a bead up on the bird as it flushed towards me and dropped it. It landed off to the left half way between Jake and I. I gave him the recall whistle and then stopped him when he was half way to me. I then casted him over to the left (something we've been working on) and he handled beautifully and picked the bird up and came right to me. A great day in the field!

[UplandJim]

Standing or sitting he was still being steady. Excellent work!

[gundogguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7QXYQOeR3U

That looks a whole lot better! ..some over here would say the dog was just running around looking for something,and agitating the ground . The clip was 'cut' at one point? ..did the wee pup 'run in'?..I don't know...but I personally would give it the benefit of the doubt.
Rabbit's btw , are a higher distraction running, than a bird flying'?..but hey I ain't talking semantics, just shooting the breeze!.
There ain't no right or wrong, just hunting!...some do it ,and some don't

Sure just shooting the breeze, What looks a whole lot better?? in the this Vid.
This scene was the dogs 4th contact in the training session, her first 3 were in proper spaniel cover, it was decided because of the video production quality to move the 4th bird out into open puppie cover. Typically that part of the field is use training blinds and handled retrieves and introduction work, not bird work!

as far as assumptions go one could discuss these points:
Was the bird flushed actually shot?
Was the pup steady?
Was the bird that was flushed actually the bird that was retrieved?
How long did it take the wee pup to sort out the mark in the wood and finish the retrieve ?

The answers would be Yes, Yes, Yes, and about 5 minutes of recording nothing but a frame of the wood that I did not care to upload to Youtube! Call it editorial license if you will.

[SpringerDude]

Here is a pic of my youngest dog, Josie. This past weekend she got her first Master Pass towards her AKC Spaniel Hunt Test Master Title. She is 17 mths old. She is going to be a small girl for a springer and currently weighs in at 33 lbs. One day I would like to try a cocker but for now, this is as close as I will get. She has been a dream to train and develop. She had the Master Level skills that day, but in my mind, she will be a Master Hunter after I see those skills in actual hunting situations. I can't wait to turn her loose in the woodcock thickets.




Here is a pic of her in March. These were the first 3 birds I shot for her and she was steady to flush shot and fall. We were just lucky because she really wasn't "trained" and "proofed" on steady. But it is fun to think about the memory.

[crackerd]

That's a gorgeous girl you've got there, Tim.

MG

[FirearmFan]

Congrats Cass on your hunting success with Jake. It sounds like he is coming along very nicely.

Tim, awesome job with Josie.

Since the woods are clearing up I was able to take my four month old, Loki, out into the woods for his first time. He has been in fields with long grass and cover before but this was his first official romp in the woods. He absolutely loved it. It was a blast watching him have so much fun and also just watching him learn and figure things out on his own.
I didn't get a picture of him in the woods but here is one of him out in a field.

[gundogguy]

Here is a pic of my youngest dog, Josie. This past weekend she got her first Master Pass towards her AKC Spaniel Hunt Test Master Title. She is 17 mths old. She is going to be a small girl for a springer and currently weighs in at 33 lbs. One day I would like to try a cocker but for now, this is as close as I will get. She has been a dream to train and develop. She had the Master Level skills that day, but in my mind, she will be a Master Hunter after I see those skills in actual hunting situations. I can't wait to turn her loose in the woodcock thickets.




Here is a pic of her in March. These were the first 3 birds I shot for her and she was steady to flush shot and fall. We were just lucky because she really wasn't "trained" and "proofed" on steady. But it is fun to think about the memory.

Congrats on the gaining a leg toward the MH title. Nice to hear of a young dog challenging the test. Obviously your training has the pup underwhelmed when it comes to conditions and factors. I'm a firm believer in helping the pup reach that state of being underwhelmed. Again nice going, have a good autumn!

[gundogguy]

Remember why a lot of spaniels do the "hard flush" so many of you lads desire. They do the hard flush with the intention of pegging the bird if it does not quickly take to wing. Every one of my 3 cockers do hard flushes ....because every one of them would peg birds if given half a chance.

British trials come down hard on dogs that peg birds and also come down hard on any spaniel that does not throw it's backside to the ground instantly when it flushes ....that applies to rabbits as well as to birds. The spaniel would be allowed a bit of leeway on this if the bird or the rabbit was flushed from thick cover. In that instance the dog is usually allowed to move to outside the cover to mark the flight path of the game but as soon as the dog clears the cover it must stop. This "rule" can be subject to quite a bit of judges interpretation of whether or not the dog has been unsteady to flush.

I think I can assure you that British spaniels would flush just as hard as yours do .....if they were allowed to.



Bill T.

I know from personal experience the British spaniel would flush as hard ours do, How many imports come here and make Champion, I was part of the British invasion back in the 90's, a dozen champions were made and one National open champion from group of fine young dogs that came over. Some pups were just started, some part trained and some that were fully trained. They were reorganized to US standards by 5 or 6 of us Yanks and then went out to make champion all across the USA.
Flush was never a question in the dogs all be it there were times during training we would wonder if it would hold up.
That is one the things no one hardly ever thinks about is how resilient the Springer is. Being able to adapt to two different system's of judging and standards and still come out ahead and doing the job they meant to do!

[polmaise]

Alright polmaise - now that I'm on my computer.... We started the day in the same area we hunted Monday when he got his first. Within minutes he flushed his first and I made him sit. I never got a proper shot at the bird but fired off a round anyways for the association. He had a couple more similar flushes but due to the cover and the fact that we still have so many leaves on the trees I didn't get shots, so just fired one in the air each time. At one point he was working a patch of spruce that was surrounded by popples and maple and he flushed a woodcock - the first I've ever seen!!!!!! I fired off a shot but don't think I was even close hahaha I was just in pure amazement. So much so that I forgot to whistle him to sit. He stopped on his own to the flush but he was standing, not sitting. The next, and final bird was the grouse that we shot. We stopped for walking for a second while Jake was drinking and a grouse took off from a branch overhead that I hadn't even seen! I told Jake to hunt em up and away he went. A couple minutes later he flushed a bird (I believe it was the same one) and I whistled for him to sit and pulled a bead up on the bird as it flushed towards me and dropped it. It landed off to the left half way between Jake and I. I gave him the recall whistle and then stopped him when he was half way to me. I then casted him over to the left (something we've been working on) and he handled beautifully and picked the bird up and came right to me. A great day in the field!

Sounds like you had a good time.

[SpringerDude]

Gundogguy,

I am going to make a guess and say your first name must be Hal. I don't know too many dogs named Zeta and have seen pictures of one on Facebook from a trainer.

If I am guessing correctly, the National Champion import dog was Briar. I had a male out of Briar and a friend purchased a female out of Briar as well. My dog Bingo is a Granddaughter of Briar. Your actions did have an impact on the springer gundogs in the Ozarks. Because of the fun I have had, I say THANK YOU! Years ago, your wife told me that you were involved in bringing Briar to the US.

That little female, Josie, has been a dream to work with. She has Orion Arch Rival and Tridon Orion Ms American Pie on both sides of her pedigree but starting in the 4th generation. From what I have been told by folks that knew both of these dogs, I am just trying not to screw her up. LOL. Seems to be some similarities.

I will be in Eagle Wi to judge the Fox River Valley Field Spaniel Club's Hunt Test in another week. I will run her in Master again and see where we are. Been "proofing" her on steady some with taped pigeons and gun shots. Not giving her any retrieves. I know she will nail them when I do. I just need to her momentarily wonder what the next command will be.

Good luck with Zeta. She seems to be a fire ball of a hunting dog.

[UplandJim]

Here is a pic of my youngest dog, Josie. This past weekend she got her first Master Pass towards her AKC Spaniel Hunt Test Master Title. She is 17 mths old. She is going to be a small girl for a springer and currently weighs in at 33 lbs. One day I would like to try a cocker but for now, this is as close as I will get. She has been a dream to train and develop. She had the Master Level skills that day, but in my mind, she will be a Master Hunter after I see those skills in actual hunting situations. I can't wait to turn her loose in the woodcock thickets.


Here is a pic of her in March. These were the first 3 birds I shot for her and she was steady to flush shot and fall. We were just lucky because she really wasn't "trained" and "proofed" on steady. But it is fun to think about the memory.

thanks for posting this. it shows I need to get my a$$ in gear.

absolutely beautiful pup btw.

[SpringerDude]

Thanks guys for the nice words about my pup.

I have learned a lot training her. My training is two fold: 1) I know what I need as a hunting dog 2) I know what I need to play dog games. To one degree, they both need similar skills, but then again there are things that are a little bit different.

Also, I live in a suburban neighborhood and there are skills needed to keep down the chaos. So, in the end, I need a well rounded dog that can be fun to work in numerous situations. In the end, I have a really nice dog to hunt with. If I am pleased with my hunting dogs, then that is all that matters. It isn't having the skills as much as how quiet we can be and how well we can work together in the field. Just want to keep things fun and enjoyable.

[gundogguy]

Gundogguy,

I am going to make a guess and say your first name must be Hal. I don't know too many dogs named Zeta and have seen pictures of one on Facebook from a trainer.

If I am guessing correctly, the National Champion import dog was Briar. I had a male out of Briar and a friend purchased a female out of Briar as well. My dog Bingo is a Granddaughter of Briar. Your actions did have an impact on the springer gundogs in the Ozarks. Because of the fun I have had, I say THANK YOU! Years ago, your wife told me that you were involved in bringing Briar to the US.

That little female, Josie, has been a dream to work with. She has Orion Arch Rival and Tridon Orion Ms American Pie on both sides of her pedigree but starting in the 4th generation. From what I have been told by folks that knew both of these dogs, I am just trying not to screw her up. LOL. Seems to be some similarities.

I will be in Eagle Wi to judge the Fox River Valley Field Spaniel Club's Hunt Test in another week. I will run her in Master again and see where we are. Been "proofing" her on steady some with taped pigeons and gun shots. Not giving her any retrieves. I know she will nail them when I do. I just need to her momentarily wonder what the next command will be.

Good luck with Zeta. She seems to be a fire ball of a hunting dog.

Of course, you refer to NFC/FC Kenkew Briar of SaradnyPark. I'll never forget the first time I saw him work, he was 13 months Andrew Greene and I took him to an area past the normal picking area at Saighton kennels driven shooting area, Picking dead birds that had been missed by the picking crew. At that age he had class and style, and nose,, justa raw talent! Well the rest is history, he came here and made many people happy to have seen him work and to have shot over him!

By the way Your Josie dog is the spitting image of Ms American Pie. The first time I saw her run in Texas some one the commented that she was the original "Pocket Rocket"..
I countered No she is not a Pocket rocket she is the whole darn space ship! Best of luck her.

[Lastfrontier]

Glad to see a place for spaniels. I always appreciate any help or advice I can get, but occasionally just because it helps a pointer doesnt mean it is right for a spaniel. I have a two year old female cocker who I finally started doing work with this past April,and it was suggested by my mentors that steadying next season would be a better option. So this winter we will start the process and hopefully by next fall have it down. I haven't been at it long enough to rely on hindsight, but I can say as a new trainer and upland hunter, this season got the " bug" going in both of us. Now I am ready to conquer steadying where before its usefulness hadn't really hit me.

[CDN_Cocker]

Glad to see a place for spaniels. I always appreciate any help or advice I can get, but occasionally just because it helps a pointer doesnt mean it is right for a spaniel. I have a two year old female cocker who I finally started doing work with this past April,and it was suggested by my mentors that steadying next season would be a better option. So this winter we will start the process and hopefully by next fall have it down. I haven't been at it long enough to rely on hindsight, but I can say as a new trainer and upland hunter, this season got the " bug" going in both of us. Now I am ready to conquer steadying where before its usefulness hadn't really hit me.

Good to see another cocker owner here. My boy is 9 months so we are in our first hunting season and I have been encouraging steadiness from the beginning. I look forward to hearing more about your girl

[Lastfrontier]

Here is my husband and the dog. It was our first spruce grouse hunt, she flushed three but we only got one down before they disappeared into the trees. All within range but we lost them to human error ( two freshly minted upland bird hunters, no surprise). She has been a doll to work with, I got lucky for sure. We have done some pheasant and chukar, for steadying though we will stick to chukars and grouse, they fly beautifully. The pheasants we used were planted and wanted to run...only bad lessons learned that day. I can't wait to see how Jake turns out either, love seeing more cocker people!

[gundogguy]

Glad to see a place for spaniels. I always appreciate any help or advice I can get, but occasionally just because it helps a pointer doesnt mean it is right for a spaniel. I have a two year old female cocker who I finally started doing work with this past April,and it was suggested by my mentors that steadying next season would be a better option. So this winter we will start the process and hopefully by next fall have it down. I haven't been at it long enough to rely on hindsight, but I can say as a new trainer and upland hunter, this season got the " bug" going in both of us. Now I am ready to conquer steadying where before its usefulness hadn't really hit me.

If you are really sincere about Steadying your dog, having some hands on help will be essential. You mentioned hunting spruce grouse in your next post sounds like you might live in the Western USA. I prolly can get you contacts for sound instruction just about anywhere in the USA.
As a side note The Cocker National Championships will be run North Dakota beginning next week. Who did you acquire your dog from?

When asking questions about training remember training a dog can not be accomplished through a correspondents course it is hands on and in the field.
Only generalized information can be conveyed through forums and blogs.
Pictures and videos are always nice to see.

[Trekmoor]

A few pics of some of my mob.





Bill T.

[CDN_Cocker]

Bill I love the black and tan cocker. He's a beauty.

[Trekmoor]

That's "Dax" he was sired by a championship winner and his dam trialed and she was sired by another championship winner. He gets a fair few bitches to stud himself, partly because he works well but partly because bitch owners hope for pups with the same tri-colour as him. That doesn't happen unless the bitch is a carrier of the tri-colour gene.

Bill T.

[Lastfrontier]

I do live on the west coast, butfar north, In Anchorage AK. Any suggestions or recommendations for trainers would be greatly appreciated. This coming summer, trainer with my local bird dog club s have offered an invite to their training group starts back up in spring and one of the things they mentioned was getting her steady. I would love to start working on it during the winter however, or at least have a good understanding and as much training in as possible.Have been searching for a trainer.

[polmaise]

So...the springer out today suddenly for the first time Stands over Game!
Normally mister reliable of two years decides he requires a recall on a perfectly found and picked up bird ,then freezes? looking at me?
What's that all about?
Done it twice more during the day with different game.
Any ideas?

[crackerd]

Thinking dr. gunddogguy of the spanielogy dept. might give you a quick and accurate diagnosis.

I always write it off as "Dogs are just dogs," they make mistakes on four legs like the rest of us on two. But when it becomes an incipient habit, Robt., as you've described, may be cause for concern. No Rx here, I'd only hazard the guess that it's sometimes pressure (too much), sometimes defiance (where in training even a little is too much). Question is, now where do you go with this dog?

MG

[gundogguy]

I do live on the west coast, butfar north, In Anchorage AK. Any suggestions or recommendations for trainers would be greatly appreciated. This coming summer, trainer with my local bird dog club s have offered an invite to their training group starts back up in spring and one of the things they mentioned was getting her steady. I would love to start working on it during the winter however, or at least have a good understanding and as much training in as possible.Have been searching for a trainer.

Yes, you are a bit off the normal path. If I were you though I would make good friends out this group. They seemed to be very active.

Arctic Bird Dog Association
James Ohlinger, Event Secretary
13019 ROSSER DR
EAGLE RIVER, AK 99577-6725
(907) 854-2414
jjfishing1975@gmail.com

[gundogguy]

So...the springer out today suddenly for the first time Stands over Game!
Normally mister reliable of two years decides he requires a recall on a perfectly found and picked up bird ,then freezes? looking at me?
What's that all about?
Done it twice more during the day with different game.
Any ideas?

Well a video would be nice. However here is shot in the dark! Our 1st FC some 25 yrs ago would demonstrate this behavior on occasion and usually at the exact wrong time.
Alex ran like train and on occasion when he would get to a mark(pheasants) he would stand over the bird and huff and puff. I referred to it as 'hot mouth".
We often attributed it to the speed and cover pounding that he demonstrated it and after producing the bird would "savior" the mark just a wee bit and catch his breath.
It did not matter what the ambient temperature were that day, hot or cold he would do it at the least opportune times. I decided not to go to "war" over the matter. He had been FF and was an extremely tough soul so pressure wasn't the issue, and we always felt it went back to his independent at times spirit.
He was the product of two UK imports. Saighton and BricksClose cross

[polmaise]

So...the springer out today suddenly for the first time Stands over Game!
Normally mister reliable of two years decides he requires a recall on a perfectly found and picked up bird ,then freezes? looking at me?
What's that all about?
Done it twice more during the day with different game.
Any ideas?

Well a video would be nice.

I was on a shoot working the dog rather than doing my Paul French impression 'Gundogguy' He hasn't done it before so I had no reason to film it.
I'm out with him again in a couple of days ,so I'll ''expect it'' ?
Curious you mention 'savour the mark' and 'Independant spirit' ! ..sums this 'hot wire' up during his earlier training !

[CDN_Cocker]

Out for a quick hunt this morning. Jake flushed 3 grouse and 2 woodcock. The one woodcock flew right across in front of me and should be a goner but for whatever reason I wasn't up for the challenge lol. Think I need to work on training the dog to shoot as well so these hunts can be more productive.

[SpringerDude]

The Missouri Woodcock season opened today. I took the opportunity to go for a walk and stretch my legs. We usually don't have many woodcock here this early but I needed to walk the dog anyway.

First flush I couldn't see the bird due to the foliage. I thought I knew where the bird would have landed. However, I guessed wrong. We (dog and I) proceeded to hunt some other cover for about an hour and then circled back to the area where the woodcock had flushed. We worked the cover from a different angle and covered different ground. This time I was right. Spud produced the woodcock and I was able to fire off a shot just as it was reaching the edge of visibility. You never know about woodcock shoots until the dog really does bring you the bird. Stopped for a photo session. Here is Spud with the first woodcock of the season. We are off to a nice start.

[UplandJim]

The Missouri Woodcock season opened today. I took the opportunity to go for a walk and stretch my legs. We usually don't have many woodcock here this early but I needed to walk the dog anyway.

First flush I couldn't see the bird due to the foliage. I thought I knew where the bird would have landed. However, I guessed wrong. We (dog and I) proceeded to hunt some other cover for about an hour and then circled back to the area where the woodcock had flushed. We worked the cover from a different angle and covered different ground. This time I was right. Spud produced the woodcock and I was able to fire off a shot just as it was reaching the edge of visibility. You never know about woodcock shoots until the dog really does bring you the bird. Stopped for a photo session. Here is Spud with the first woodcock of the season. We are off to a nice start.

This post has all kinds of awesome! Thx for posting!

Grouse and Woodcock open here in PA this Saturday. Can't wait!

[jhorak]

Here's my contribution to the thread.

The pack (minus 1 that's been added since last winter)


A limit of Woodcock from last Saturday:


One of the "up-and-comers" with a Woodcock shot over her last week.


Here is a quick video I shot of Rocky doing quartering drills. No birds involved, and a crying kid in the background (my wife is a trooper), but you at least get to see a spaniel moving through decent cover.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_vZbrJJ9fQ

That's about all I've got.

[CDN_Cocker]

Jordan I have seen some of your videos in the past!!!! I had no idea you were on here! Your dogs look awesome, do you trial? Would love to hear more about your pups and your training!

[jhorak]

Jordan I have seen some of your videos in the past!!!! I had no idea you were on here! Your dogs look awesome, do you trial? Would love to hear more about your pups and your training!

I'm not on here too often, but check in occasionally. I mostly just train and hunt a lot, but did put Rocky in one FT this fall. I'm hoping to have Breeze ready for trials in the spring, which would give me two dogs to enter, so there's the possibility I might start being a regular at them. We'll see. Right now I'm having fun using them for the real thing-- hunting!

[CDN_Cocker]

Jordan I have seen some of your videos in the past!!!! I had no idea you were on here! Your dogs look awesome, do you trial? Would love to hear more about your pups and your training!

I'm not on here too often, but check in occasionally. I mostly just train and hunt a lot, but did put Rocky in one FT this fall. I'm hoping to have Breeze ready for trials in the spring, which would give me two dogs to enter, so there's the possibility I might start being a regular at them. We'll see. Right now I'm having fun using them for the real thing-- hunting!

Jake is my first cocker and I am thoroughly enjoying our first hunting season together. At 9 months he is learning so much more each time we go out. I watched all of your videos when I first got him as it was one of the few North American links I could find at the time. If I'm not mistaken you had a blog too? You should really keep that up to date! An awesome resource for new guys to the breed/sport like myself!

[jhorak]

They'll make you think they're the most well-behaved and easy to train dogs in the world until they get to their second season of hunting. At that point they will decide they now know more than you do and have no need for your intervention in their hunting pursuits. Just wait, it'll happen Jake is at the age right now where he doesn't know anything, and you are the source of all things good in his life, as well as his source of confidence. When they get older, they get more confident, and realize that they can have fun 50 yards away from you. It's just new challenges that are easily overcome, but can still be frustrating. I believe you're using the e-collar which will probably hide a lot of those issues, while the collar is on anyway.

I did use to have a blog and more videos, but have since curbed most of that-- I realized how little I knew and have gone back to mostly just trying to learn from others. Trust me, you'll be much further ahead if you do more receiving of advice than giving advice Maybe I'll try to get a few videos of some of the drills I do though...

[gundogguy]

They'll make you think they're the most well-behaved and easy to train dogs in the world until they get to their second season of hunting. At that point they will decide they now know more than you do and have no need for your intervention in their hunting pursuits. Just wait, it'll happen Jake is at the age right now where he doesn't know anything, and you are the source of all things good in his life, as well as his source of confidence. When they get older, they get more confident, and realize that they can have fun 50 yards away from you. It's just new challenges that are easily overcome, but can still be frustrating. I believe you're using the e-collar which will probably hide a lot of those issues, while the collar is on anyway.

I did use to have a blog and more videos, but have since curbed most of that-- I realized how little I knew and have gone back to mostly just trying to learn from others. Trust me, you'll be much further ahead if you do more receiving of advice than giving advice Maybe I'll try to get a few videos of some of the drills I do though...

+1 With that thought process you will do well in the trial arena. Who do train with in Wisconsin Jeff S ? Jason G ? Debra S,. Nice video on the earlier post, even with catchy sound affects
Who did you acquire you dogs from? If you would rather PM me.

[SpringerDude]

They'll make you think they're the most well-behaved and easy to train dogs in the world until they get to their second season of hunting. At that point they will decide they now know more than you do and have no need for your intervention in their hunting pursuits. Just wait, it'll happen Jake is at the age right now where he doesn't know anything, and you are the source of all things good in his life, as well as his source of confidence. When they get older, they get more confident, and realize that they can have fun 50 yards away from you. It's just new challenges that are easily overcome, but can still be frustrating. I believe you're using the e-collar which will probably hide a lot of those issues, while the collar is on anyway.

I did use to have a blog and more videos, but have since curbed most of that-- I realized how little I knew and have gone back to mostly just trying to learn from others. Trust me, you'll be much further ahead if you do more receiving of advice than giving advice Maybe I'll try to get a few videos of some of the drills I do though...

So true, so true. Dogs of any breed tend to do the same thing but from what I have heard, cockers have their own way about deciding "who's in charge". Jordan came to the Missouri Hunting Spaniel Club's AKC hunt test a few years back and we got to visit and meet his dogs. Both, Jordan and his dogs, were fun to be around.

I keep thinking that I would one day like to get a cocker. However, I just keep smaller springers and enjoy not dealing with the cocker quirk's that some tell you about. Oh well... maybe one day.

[crackerd]

They'll make you think they're the most well-behaved and easy to train dogs in the world until they get to their second season of hunting. At that point they will decide they now know more than you do and have no need for your intervention in their hunting pursuits. Just wait, it'll happen Jake is at the age right now where he doesn't know anything, and you are the source of all things good in his life, as well as his source of confidence. When they get older, they get more confident, and realize that they can have fun 50 yards away from you. It's just new challenges that are easily overcome, but can still be frustrating. I believe you're using the e-collar which will probably hide a lot of those issues, while the collar is on anyway.

Interesting to see if this happens with Jake, since he's getting trained nonslip by Cass (with Kraka's guidance) via a retriever program, and that kind of rebelliousness does not happen with retrievers even though they have their fun at much greater distances. Nonslip training augmented with the e-collar doesn't mask or hide anything, it's integral to that training program, and in my experience, it's also very good for a flushing spaniel because it's also obedience-based.

A questing or quartering pattern inevitably falls under the heading of obedience, and the pip-pip on your Acme 210.5 is a come about command just like the single blast means to stop for gundogs and three blasts commands them to come in. Any spaniel can come unsteady and most certainly any can also "learn" if it gets by with punching out, there's a wide, wide world out there to explore (and have fun in so doing). Good obedience changes all that. Retrievers don't have "sophomore slumps" or "the terrible twos," and spaniels getting the kind of training Jake's lucked into needn't be overcome by that sort of thing either.

MG

[jhorak]

deleted my post, replaced with a more appropriate response later in the thread.

[crackerd]

Don't think you want to be a wise*ss - there are retriever programs to follow,yes, there aren't spaniel programs unless you tell us otherwise. Perfect has nothing to do with them, perseverance and following sequentially does.

MG

[gundogguy]

Don't think you want to be a wise*ss - there are retriever programs to follow,yes, there aren't spaniel programs unless you tell us otherwise. Perfect has nothing to do with them, perseverance and following sequentially does.

MG

Now Now Crackerd There is NO perfect spaniel program and I will begin to explain. However there is a perfect nonslip retriever program to follow. It is all in the geometry of the game.
I concur with general premise of that the non-slip retriever trial is based on long distant precision obedience which the E-collar made possible with the training experimentation and set-up development of such luminaries as Rex Carr. Back in the 1960’s retrievers in this country were working at distances in trial that would barely get you qualifying score in today’s world of Hunt Tests. As you know with advent of the e-collar, distance both in marking and in blind work has gone into the stratosphere, 500 yrds being quite common place in many trial training camps, marks and blind. In Fenwick or Onaway Michigan even greater distances are being achieved. Technical lands dedicated to the development of the non-slip retriever.

However flushing spaniel (Cocker Or Springer) trials are NOT obedience events. The elements of trial revolve around standards that have been in place quite some time. They are judge subjectively based those standards. The distances that dogs work at are more dictated by the improvement in gunning over dogs in the field. Even with modern ammo and guns tweeked to the max, marking distances are still limited to proper gunning distances. Yes, the e-collar is used in the development of spaniels preparing for trial. Back in ED W days one could go to a 30 dog trial for example and 10-12 dogs would be drop from contention for breaking at flush and shot, today maybe 1-2 dogs would break, obedience has improved dramatically in the last 25-30yrs though there is still only one winner, and from my vantage point that usually the most stylish bird finder and spot on marker.
( As an aside I' really concerned about the amount of handling I see in Cocker trials on marked retrieves both here and in the UK).
Back to the discussion Running style can be affected by the e-collar in certain spaniel blood lines. Flushing strength or boldness can also be affected. Even the overall attractiveness that the animated spaniel possesses can be affected.
For the pet hunter companion those issue may hold no importance, however for the trialer and some extent the hunt tester they may be difference in continuing with the dog or replacing the dog.
The spaniel blood lines have not been tested, pressurized and monitored the way the retriever blood lines have and how they handle force and pressure, for the last 40 yrs. Non-slip retriever training is a formulated process of canine behavior modification. The rules of development of the questing flushing spaniel, well 2+2 does not always equal 4
Questing spaniels compared to Non slip retrievers is like comparing apples to a Hersey chocolate bar, they are both sweet and tasty but they are different.
There is much that could be discussed.
HS

I really donot think jhorak was trying start anything with his cautionary tale, I think possible he was just speaking for experience which I could relate to quite easily!

[crackerd]

Gundogguy, I defer to you and the vast experience - and I ain't trying to start anything either, whether at 50 or 500 yards. My only contention is the same geometry of the game comes into play on a quartering pattern, all else being equal and e-collar use being via indirect pressure. (Please look down on me kindly, ED W )

MG

[polmaise]

I stand to be corrected !
Anything I have seen or read regarding spaniel (cocker or Springer) ,much of the hunting 'style' has been out of gunshot from the handler and very little 'nose on the deck'