Relocating or going in on the flush

[ezzy333]

Once a dog establishes point, he oughtn't be creeping closer if the bird is sitting still. Running birds are a different scenario.
A dog that circles a sitting bird is trying to pressure the bird to flight. Look, say the wind is coming from 12:00 and the dog points at the position of 6:00. How does the dog circling around to 11:00 or 2:00 keep scent on the dog's nose? Circling a bird that is not moving is not pinning it - pinning implies a moving bird and the dog is getting on the other side to stop it going that direction.

Get the difference? Sitting vs moving bird?

Thw2 difference I understand but where I think anyone would be confused is to try and judge the birds movement or lack of movement when it can't be seen. All we can do is guess. And I have seen dogs circle and get to the far side so the bird is between it and me. But even then I have no idea what the dog is thinking or if he is thinking. I am almost positive they do a lot less thinking than many think they do and that their thinking is related to them and not us.

Ezzy

[Trekmoor]

Thanks shags, I agree , the dog should not move on a sitting bird . If the wind changes direction a bit as you walk to the point would you be happy to allow the dog to circle the sitting bird until it was back into the scent cone again ?

Bill T.

[polmaise]

Once a dog establishes point, he oughtn't be creeping closer if the bird is sitting still. Running birds are a different scenario.
A dog that circles a sitting bird is trying to pressure the bird to flight. Look, say the wind is coming from 12:00 and the dog points at the position of 6:00. How does the dog circling around to 11:00 or 2:00 keep scent on the dog's nose? Circling a bird that is not moving is not pinning it - pinning implies a moving bird and the dog is getting on the other side to stop it going that direction.

Get the difference? Sitting vs moving bird?

Good post Shags !
? It could also be trying to pressure the bird to stay?

[shags]

Thanks shags, I agree , the dog should not move on a sitting bird . If the wind changes direction a bit as you walk to the point would you be happy to allow the dog to circle the sitting bird until it was back into the scent cone again ?

Bill T.

No, I wouldn't be happy with that. If the wind shifts and my dog loses scent, I can read it. He should stand until I release him, which I am accustomed to do. Then he can do what he needs to pin it.

Once a dog establishes point, he oughtn't be creeping closer if the bird is sitting still. Running birds are a different scenario.
A dog that circles a sitting bird is trying to pressure the bird to flight. Look, say the wind is coming from 12:00 and the dog points at the position of 6:00. How does the dog circling around to 11:00 or 2:00 keep scent on the dog's nose? Circling a bird that is not moving is not pinning it - pinning implies a moving bird and the dog is getting on the other side to stop it going that direction.

Get the difference? Sitting vs moving bird?

Good post Shags !
? It could also be trying to pressure the bird to stay?

Does not compute . If movement pressures birds to stay, why have staunch pointing dogs? Why not have dogs to circle tighter and tighter until you go in for the shot? Why disapprove flaggers? And why do birds flush for spaniels?

[polmaise]

And why do birds flush for spaniels?

..
That one is easy ..because they 'flush' not point

[Neil]

The value of circle the birds has been debated for a 100 years, the great Hall of Fame setter Count Noble was thrown out of some trials for doing it, thinking it a form of blinking. Based on the esteemed opinions of so many, I have nothing to add, other than I won't allow it in my dogs.

[shags]

And why do birds flush for spaniels?

..
That one is easy ..because they 'flush' not point

So their movement does not hold the bird

[shags]

The value of circle the birds has been debated for a 100 years, the great Hall of Fame setter Count Noble was thrown out of some trials for doing it, thinking it a form of blinking. Based on the esteemed opinions of so many, I have nothing to add, other than I won't allow it in my dogs.

Well that makes me feel pretty good...my old circling dog was in good company