The Spaniel Spot

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:03 pm

MJB64 wrote:Get there early and volunteer to carry the shagger's basket.
Mike

What does this mean in America ? One of those words has a very different meaning here !

Bill T.

welsh · Post by **welsh** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:14 pm

Trekmoor wrote:One of those words has a very different meaning here !

Ah, yes. The shagger would be the guy who gets to carry the basket full of dead birds.

What he does when he gets home after the trial is, well, between him and his partner....

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:55 pm

Thanks for the info ! I thought for a minute I was maybe missing out on something good !

In British trials that job is done by what we call a "game carrier" but I think I prefer your word, in some ways it is more descriptive ..... I have felt shagged out (utterly knackered) several times while carrying a bag load of birds around.

Bill T.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:12 pm

New addition to the pack.
'Paddy' The Cocker just brought over from Ireland.
Settled in and already ruling the roost.

S1440013.JPG

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:06 pm

polmaise wrote:New addition to the pack.
'Paddy' The Cocker just brought over from Ireland.
Settled in and already ruling the roost.
S1440013.JPG

He looks just grand. Now keep us up on his growth, short vids' would be nice as well.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:17 pm

Black cocker with a white blaze on the chest.... my kinda dog! Looks great P!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:41 am

gundogguy wrote: He looks just grand. Now keep us up on his growth, short vids' would be nice as well.

At 9 weeks old we have just been doing basic stuff 'Gundogguy' ,like hunting/finding/and retrieving game to hand

S1460029.JPG

S1460030.JPG

S1460031.JPG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:43 am

S1460035.JPG

S1460037.JPG

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:07 pm

polmaise wrote:
S1460035.JPG

S1460037.JPG

Very nice! You must be very happy with your new pup! Great Photo's thanks so much!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:14 pm

Always great expectations with a new pup 'Gundogguy' . This one has the breeding (I was looking for) ,the training will either pull that out or show how I've let it down

So far , in the last 3 days it has a bit of 'spunk'

The Lab pups in the kennels of the same age are 'streaks' ahead,but then they were born here .

S1460004.JPG

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:27 am

polmaise wrote:Always great expectations with a new pup 'Gundogguy' . This one has the breeding (I was looking for) ,the training will either pull that out or show how I've let it down

S1460004.JPG

Exactly, I have often wondered how many pup buyers understand the responsibility they have. as I have often said about pups that eventually come in for training, "Really nice pup, a shame he did not get to pick his owner" Your pup is a very lucky pup!!

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:34 pm

Looking for a little advice...

My 12 week old female Springer is ready to fetch and does most of it right.... But still wants to run off with the bumper... So far I've used a check chord to encourage her to "Bring it." Any other hints on how to get her to deliver consistently... Or is this just a waiting game?

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:50 am

She's only 12 weeks. Don't give her too many, and only do it in an area where she has to come straight back - like a hallway. At 12 weeks, there is no need for a check cord.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:07 am

I just had my 10 week old cocker pup in the front lawn,at first it had the enthusiasm to chase and catch the paint roller and hold on to it.When it ''trotted'' off with it's prize, I walked away and it followed! We done a few more times till It was a huge big bit of fun coming right back at ya

....so he could do it again.

At that age ,the 'Taking' is crucial

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:58 pm

Took my man for his annual shots today and the vet remarked on how athletic he looked. When we put him on the scale he weighed in at 38.8 lbs! My skinny "little" cocker is a beast! When I went to Central Ontario spaniel club's trial 2 weeks ago I kept thinking he was much larger than the cockers there but I guess the proof is in the pudding! I understand why people might think they are too small for some game now. I don't know what I'd do if mine was "normal" sized!

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:05 pm

Thanks guys. She's been getting a bit better. This weekend I'll have her watch the in-laws Lab fetch it up and see how she reacts. So far I think she just has a "look at me" attitude that will change as she ages.

By the way, 38 lbs is a big, and fun sized, cocker Cass! If you find another like that, let me know.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:25 am

Cockers come in various sizes. I have two males that weigh about 35 lbs. each and I also have the sire of one of them . He weighs 45 lbs. and that is him at his "fit" weight !

I'll try to put up a photograph of the 3 dogs together .... Billy is very obviously bigger even though he is the dog at the rear .

Billy again showing his size in comparison to my other two dogs and a bitch.

Bill T.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:20 am

Always love pics of your cockers Bill. Billy is a stunner - looks powerful. Still got my eye on that Dax though... hahahaha

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:02 am

Billy and Charlie (his son) have a similar working style while Dax's style is a bit more like a springers. Dax tends to hunt in smooth ,even sweeps , the other two cockers are a bit more "jerky." All of my cockers come from Danderw Druid lines. He is the sire of both Billy and Dax. Wonder how many pups that dog had over the years ?
Dax has been popular as a stud dog over here , partly because folk like what they see as he works but probably mainly because they hope for pups with the same colouration ! I've lost count of the number of studs I've lost because I have explained that the pups will not be Dax's colour unless the dam also has tri-colour genes. He studded a bitch about 5 weeks ago and for once it wasn't because of his colour. The bitch's owner is a gamekeeper from Glenshee who saw him working on his estate last season. All the keeper wants is a good pup for himself.

Bill T.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:31 pm

Just to start a convo... and I know it varies... BUT...

When do you introduce your pups to birds (or what determines they're ready) and what's your bird of choice for this process?

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:21 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Looking for a little advice...

My 12 week old female Springer is ready to fetch and does most of it right.... But still wants to run off with the bumper... So far I've used a check chord to encourage her to "Bring it." Any other hints on how to get her to deliver consistently... Or is this just a waiting game?

Here is my 14 week old springer bitch pup at 14 weeks I use elevated surfaces all the time in the teaching process. She is now 23 months old and will begin her Field trial career this Autumn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0CRzD9-mC4

Cold dead pigeon a few days later

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W4X7ob-4z8

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:28 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:Took my man for his annual shots today and the vet remarked on how athletic he looked. When we put him on the scale he weighed in at 38.8 lbs! My skinny "little" cocker is a beast! When I went to Central Ontario spaniel club's trial 2 weeks ago I kept thinking he was much larger than the cockers there but I guess the proof is in the pudding! I understand why people might think they are too small for some game now. I don't know what I'd do if mine was "normal" sized!

You guys make me laugh.

I have a group of Spaniel dog show ladies that come to me for Hunt test training help every week. We they are waiting there turn in the field they do not talk about training or scenting or even wind direction they talk about dog's sizes coat length angulation steepness of shoulders and so on. It is hard to imagine what any of that has to do with "finding birds, retrieving birds with manners" and "courage in the face of heavy cover" I have always thought "the size of a dogs heart was more important the size of the dog" when it comes to our beloved sporting dogs

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:45 pm

Found this old pic... Thought I'd test attaching on...

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:59 pm

gundogguy wrote:
CDN_Cocker wrote:Took my man for his annual shots today and the vet remarked on how athletic he looked. When we put him on the scale he weighed in at 38.8 lbs! My skinny "little" cocker is a beast! When I went to Central Ontario spaniel club's trial 2 weeks ago I kept thinking he was much larger than the cockers there but I guess the proof is in the pudding! I understand why people might think they are too small for some game now. I don't know what I'd do if mine was "normal" sized!
You guys make me laugh. I have a group of Spaniel dog show ladies that come to me for Hunt test training help every week. We they are waiting there turn in the field they do not talk about training or scenting or even wind direction they talk about dog's sizes coat length angulation steepness of shoulders and so on. It is hard to imagine what any of that has to do with "finding birds, retrieving birds with manners" and "courage in the face of heavy cover" I have always thought "the size of a dogs heart was more important the size of the dog" when it comes to our beloved sporting dogs

Class and Class content makes a different result

Every week?....You have a patient approach

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:54 am

mnaj_springer wrote:Found this old pic... Thought I'd test attaching on...

Nice content though it is really big, hard to view on the desktop.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:56 am

polmaise wrote:
gundogguy wrote:
CDN_Cocker wrote:Took my man for his annual shots today and the vet remarked on how athletic he looked. When we put him on the scale he weighed in at 38.8 lbs! My skinny "little" cocker is a beast! When I went to Central Ontario spaniel club's trial 2 weeks ago I kept thinking he was much larger than the cockers there but I guess the proof is in the pudding! I understand why people might think they are too small for some game now. I don't know what I'd do if mine was "normal" sized!
You guys make me laugh. I have a group of Spaniel dog show ladies that come to me for Hunt test training help every week. We they are waiting there turn in the field they do not talk about training or scenting or even wind direction they talk about dog's sizes coat length angulation steepness of shoulders and so on. It is hard to imagine what any of that has to do with "finding birds, retrieving birds with manners" and "courage in the face of heavy cover" I have always thought "the size of a dogs heart was more important the size of the dog" when it comes to our beloved sporting dogs
Class and Class content makes a different result
Every week?....You have a patient approach

We meet today 6-10 dogs and It is Independence day weekend!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:08 am

Throwback Thursday!

National Championships 2002 HayMarsh Hunt Club Mid-Michigan!

Nancy Jo and AFC Blaze

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:10 am

Great pic Hal!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:22 am

Hal can you check your PMs please?

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:44 am

Who else is anxious for fall to arrive?! The pup was introduced to birds the other day and now I absolutely am begging for cool weather and changing leaves!

Also, a buddy asked me about cockers and springers... I know springers fairly well, but what are some of the differences in their working and training styles (I've heard some already but I want undiluted answers)

Thanks!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:13 am

You will be hard pressed to get undiluted answers as springer and cocker people tend to have a lighthearted rivalry. I noticed at the trial I went to that the cocker people (since they are so few) tend to stick together. Watching the 2 breeds side by side there is not much difference. They are bred to do the same thing in the same manner. Cockers tend to me a bit more stubborn in training and need a little different approach whereas most people find springers a little more straightforward, but of course there are exceptions in both breeds. From my observations watching the 2 compete against each other (here in Canada springers and cockers both run in the same trials) there really is little that is different - both are very fun to watch! From speaking to other cocker owners I think the consensus on training differs a bit from springer owners. Springers most times are softer and benefit from less pressure early on. Whereas cockers are hard headed and hard charging little fellows and can benefit a great deal from having solid obedience expectations from early on.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:42 pm

That's where I went wrong then !

My two cockers Dax and Charlie had no obedience training at all until they were about 11-12 months old. All they knew was to gallop out, grab dummies, birds or rabbits and then gallop back again. They also had a bit of free hunting and knew how to find and chase rabbits.

I think maybe springers are a bit easier to train but not so much fun. I trained a springer bitch a few years ago and she was hunting rabbits, flushing them and sitting to flush at 7-8 months old. She was and still is considerably "softer" than my cockers but she is also more sensible and amenable to discipline. I like both breeds and would be hard put to choose between them.
I seem to remember the springers of 30-40 years ago being a good bit "harder" in nature and more difficult to train than our present springers but maybe that's just a faulty memory.

Bill T.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:40 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:I know springers fairly well, but what are some of the differences in their working and training styles (I've heard some already but I want undiluted answers)

Thanks!

Depends what your approach to them is like.
The Colclough brothers explain it well

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:33 am

mnaj_springer wrote:Who else is anxious for fall to arrive?! The pup was introduced to birds the other day and now I absolutely am begging for cool weather and changing leaves!

Also, a buddy asked me about cockers and springers... I know springers fairly well, but what are some of the differences in their working and training styles (I've heard some already but I want undiluted answers)

Thanks!

If you do live in the Central Minnesota, then you are in the middle of a lot of well qualified spaniel people, Cockers and Springer's. Search them out and attend training sessions of both breeds and you will have a much better understanding of the differences and similarities between the 2 breeds. The internet is a good place to get diluted information, eyewitness information is always better.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:28 am

Yeah, I plan to attend hunt tests and trials as much as possible. Just thought I'd check in here for the 'short answer' for my friend. Thanks for the replies! He's going to talk to some cocker breeders as well.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:45 am

mnaj_springer wrote:Yeah, I plan to attend hunt tests and trials as much as possible. Just thought I'd check in here for the 'short answer' for my friend. Thanks for the replies! He's going to talk to some cocker breeders as well.

That's a good plan and I hope you get a number of opportunity's to do that. Of the two events you will get a better look at trials then at hunt tests. The gallery requirements allow for a closer look at the dogs in event. Remember dogs in Trial are being judged subjectively against each other. In a Test the scoring is done objectively against a list of written behaviors that a dog must perform depending on the level in which it is entered.
Have great time
Hal

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:34 am

The Minnesota Hunting Spaniel Association is having a fun trial on August 9th. You will see springers and cockers.

Mike

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:25 am

MJB64 wrote:The Minnesota Hunting Spaniel Association is having a fun trial on August 9th. You will see springers and cockers.

Mike

Now that's perfect! I believe there is a Fun trial in West Virginia that same weekend as well. I believe the first Licensed Springer trial is the 30,31 August Central Connecticut SP Club

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:17 pm

Just thought I'd update ya'll (aka do some bragging) on my springer pup... She's turning into an awesome dog! She LOVES retrieving and water retrieves, and birds wind her up like a top. I've also noticed that she's turning into a leggy girl. Well I'm done with my bragging for now!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:52 am

mnaj_springer wrote:Just thought I'd update ya'll (aka do some bragging) on my springer pup... She's turning into an awesome dog! She LOVES retrieving and water retrieves, and birds wind her up like a top. I've also noticed that she's turning into a leggy girl. Well I'm done with my bragging for now!

Cool, now a video might be nice. It is kind of like me saying that I am still throwing 98mph fastballs or that I can still hit major league pitching..ha ha

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:21 am

mnaj_springer wrote:Just thought I'd update ya'll (aka do some bragging) on my springer pup... She's turning into an awesome dog! She LOVES retrieving and water retrieves, and birds wind her up like a top. I've also noticed that she's turning into a leggy girl. Well I'm done with my bragging for now!

Well done! Appears you have come a long way in 5/6 weeks.
The young springer at 4 1/2 months old should be well confident by now.
Here is this wee one at the same age who had similar confusion with retrieves and water

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53kbpfFyVMg

Scott Water 1.jpg

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:27 am

polmaise wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Just thought I'd update ya'll (aka do some bragging) on my springer pup... She's turning into an awesome dog! She LOVES retrieving and water retrieves, and birds wind her up like a top. I've also noticed that she's turning into a leggy girl. Well I'm done with my bragging for now!
Well done! Appears you have come a long way in 5/6 weeks.
The young springer at 4 1/2 months old should be well confident by now.
Here is this wee one at the same age who had similar confusion with retrieves and water
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53kbpfFyVMg
Scott Water 1.jpg

Now that's what I'm talking about!! Good show!

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:10 pm

gundogguy wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Just thought I'd update ya'll (aka do some bragging) on my springer pup... She's turning into an awesome dog! She LOVES retrieving and water retrieves, and birds wind her up like a top. I've also noticed that she's turning into a leggy girl. Well I'm done with my bragging for now!
Cool, now a video might be nice. It is kind of like me saying that I am still throwing 98mph fastballs or that I can still hit major league pitching..ha ha

Well I'll get one when I can, but I'm usually training alone so it can be difficult haha

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:12 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
gundogguy wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Just thought I'd update ya'll (aka do some bragging) on my springer pup... She's turning into an awesome dog! She LOVES retrieving and water retrieves, and birds wind her up like a top. I've also noticed that she's turning into a leggy girl. Well I'm done with my bragging for now!
Cool, now a video might be nice. It is kind of like me saying that I am still throwing 98mph fastballs or that I can still hit major league pitching..ha ha
Well I'll get one when I can, but I'm usually training alone so it can be difficult haha

I can understand that if you are doing something else with your hands at the time

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:22 am

polmaise wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote: Well I'll get one when I can, but I'm usually training alone so it can be difficult haha
I can understand that if you are doing something else with your hands at the time

Like pulling out your hair hahahaha. Thats why I keep mine buzzed off lmao

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:39 am

I wear a hat for that problem

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:02 am

Cass, I know you've mentioned that you live in town, so I'm wondering how you've problem solved for that as far as training... I'm in a similar situation and I do as much as I can, but I'm looking for more ideas.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:03 am

Just gotta work around it. Living in town doesn't hurt at all for most training (aside from birds and shooting). All of your obedience and retrieving training can easily be done in town. I go to parks (generally early so I do not have to see or talk to anyone.... not that I'm anti-social but I want to be able to focus on the dog) and of course use my back yard. Bird work is a bit more difficult. In the early days I would take him to my friend's house who lives out of town on a farm and would plant birds in his field and allow him to shoot while I handled the dog. Far from ideal but it was all I had to work with. Now all my bird work/quartering/gunning stuff I do either with another gentleman I met with a pair of awesome spaniels (a little over an hour drive from me) or with a group that trains 3 hours from me. Clearly its not ideal... I work, have a young daughter, not to mention a million other things I should spend my time on but I try to meet with either that one fellow or the group at least once every 2 weeks (my weekends that I am not working). Might not be enough of that stuff but its certainly more than he was getting before.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:37 am

Thanks Cass! That seems like what I've been doing so far, minus having a friend with a farm. But same here, the obedience and retrieving work I do consistently and every Saturday morning (when life allows me a free Saturday) I work with a gun dog club... I would just prefer to get her on more birds.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:28 am

mnaj_springer wrote:Thanks Cass! That seems like what I've been doing so far, minus having a friend with a farm. But same here, the obedience and retrieving work I do consistently and every Saturday morning (when life allows me a free Saturday) I work with a gun dog club... I would just prefer to get her on more birds.

I think you're doing just fine

I would definitely prefer more bird work as well but he does well enough with the limited work that he gets. My guy is pretty hard charging so I don't think the extra obedience hurts him at all. And when he does actually get on birds he does well. Not everyone has the luxury of having birds at their fingertips and land to train on every day, and thats okay. Just work with what you have. Any training is good training