honoring a point

jager meister · Post by **jager meister** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:14 am

I have a 6 month old GSP who will honor any dog point. I was hunting this past weekend and another kid and his dog and my dog went on a BEAUTIFUL point on a chucker from about 40 feet away. His dog did not even see or smell the bird but his owner come over and called over his dog and his dog ran right past my dog (his is a brittany), his dog ran right past my dog. My concern question is will this one experience ruin my dogs natural inclination to honor or will he be fine. I like my dog to work with other dogs but I DO NOT WANT HIM TO GET BAD HABITS. SHould I hunt alone, or shoudl I let the kid know it is NOT OK to have your dog run past another point? Background information here is ealier in the day my dog honored this brits point on a hen pheasent IT WAS ABSOLUTLY BEAUTIFUL. I do not say anythign to my dog he just stands there, even if the bird runs he stays put. He has a ton of natural ability I just do not want to destroy it. WHAT SHOULD I DO?????

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:33 am

If it was me, I wouldn't hunt with that specific dog.

Best, Greg J.

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:37 am

It sounds to me that you have a very nice dog with lots of natural ability. IMO I would avoid any problem that you think or know to be a problem. If the other pup would not do or obey its owner, I would not hunt with that dog and your dog out at the same time.

The training is like building a wall and you are lay in a single brick with every good experience. Keep up the good thoughts and great work. Go slow as even Rome was not built in a day.

Congratulations on a nice pup.

Pepper

Don · Post by **Don** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:59 am

I agree with the other guy's. Big key here is that you do not have a seasoned dog, you have a 6 mo old pup yourself.

jager meister · Post by **jager meister** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:19 am

I hear you all I =knew it was bab but I feel like a snob telling this Kid I can not hunt with him and his dog casue I dont wnat my dog to pick up bad habits...I will be telling this to a kid who feels he has more experience with training a dog cause his father has done it in the past. I just feel it is a sticky situation but MUST not hunt with them any longer casue I can not afford to harm the natural ability of this dog. Just need to come up with a tactful way of saying "it is unfair of another dog to not honor a point..."

Thanks for your comments!!!

Does anyone think this one incident has negativly affected the pup?

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:36 am

How about telling the kid that you'd rather hunt the dogs one at a time?

Best, Greg

romeo212000 · Post by **romeo212000** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:49 am

I was going to suggest that. No reason you cant hunt together and enjoy each other's company. Just tell him you would like to hunt your dogs separately since your dog is just a pup and very inexperienced. My dog is 7 months and works well by herself but when there is another dog on the ground all she wants to do id play. It will come with age.

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:52 am

The one incident will not hurt your dog, but at his age it should be avoided. Greg had a good solution or just say that you are still developing your dog and feel it would be best if he hunts alone till he gets older, no need to say why.

jager meister · Post by **jager meister** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:12 am

great ideas guys THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH!!!

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:31 am

I'd be honest and tell the help the kid teach his dog to honor after season but until then I want to work the dogs seperately to not ruin your pups natural honor.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:01 pm

Bobman got it right. I can't tell if this was just a one time occurance or not but I would sure try to help get the other pup to honor. This is supposed to be a sport we can all enjoy together. And to do that you should be able to work together and build some strongfriendships that will last a life time.

Ezzy

jager meister · Post by **jager meister** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:14 pm

how woudl you all feel about formal "whoa" training. I have tossed around two ideas, one let him continue to work on his own and shot only the birds he holds a "realtive" good point on and start whoa in the summer OR shoud I start "whoa" training him now? I understand NO WHOA on BIRDS right now till he gets it but I mean back yard training?

the BASICS are all engrained (as much as they can be in such a young pup...), I just fear getting too deep with him right now, but he seems to be taking EVEYTHING i can throw at him and he is all but BOMB proff...I am lucky casue I have made mistakes that could have been real bad if I had had a "soft" dog...Jager is not soft at all more like a block of STEAL.

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:44 pm

Personally I dont do any whoa training until their second summer after they have hunted a season. I know a lot of guys that do it younger though.

Whoa is kind of a negative command in my mind and I like to have them more mature before I train it, I feel the same way about FF, if I train FF whcih I usally dont

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:53 pm

I would teach whoa at this time. I guess there are varied opinions. I don't consider it a negative, to me it is a simply a stop and stay command. It comes in handy in many different situations.

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:09 pm

Just keep in mind that your dog is doing this naturally, it can go out the window at any time. Seems like I see alot of dogs start out backing naturally then at some point they ask themselves, "why am I standing here?" And they are the ones blowing past the other dog. Do not be alarmed. But, it shows your dog is a natural backer and it is usually not hard to reinstate it. I like to wait until a dog is 10-12 mo old before formally Whoa training and steadying up. Just depends on each dogs individually maturity.

highcotton · Post by **highcotton** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:20 pm

I have had some of those "naturals" but they all got over it.

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:24 pm

I have 5 natural backing shorthairs, their mother was a natural backer and they are also and solid as a rock at it.

If they are going to outgrow it they better hurry they are 11 1/2 years old

.

Their Dams father was NFC udibar koonas their Father was Rawhide clown, this trait was just pure luck I guess but it sure was nice not to ever have to train it.

The funny thing is when I'm walking them in the exercise field near my house and one will stop for whatever reason the next one sees it and backs then a chain reaction occurs and they all lock up.

Cracks me up when it happens, bunch of dummies.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:10 pm

I too think you need to find a way to get the young partners dog under control before it creates problems for your dog which it most likely will if it becomes a regular occurance.

Whoa can be a negative command but it really depends on how it is taught and in what context.

With my hunting dogs I usually run pups with older dogs. If the pups don't back naturally I'll hunt them dragging a short stiff cc'd and when they come crashing in to see what's going on I'll stop the dog, stack them up and tell them whoa and hold them while someone else does the flushing and shooting.

With a smart, well bred dog, pretty soon they are backing well and whoaing and when you say "whoa" instead of cringing thinking they are in trouble, the dog stands up tall like "There must be birds here SOMEWHERE" just like they are on point.

The dog in my avatar is one of those pups. That picture was taken with him whoa'd, no birds around. CR

ddshine · Post by **ddshine** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:17 pm

I have trained dogs that are naturals and one day they just loose it all. others that I have trained have had not natural ability at all and turned out some pretty nice bird dogs. I guess if the genetics are there they will come back. But you really do not know what you have until it is they are older. Sounds like your pup is off to a good start and just keep it going.

I have a six month old pup now that I am training. i cannot get her to chase a bird. I kind of want her to have some fun but she just stands and watches the birds fall. but that still does not mean she won't start chasing them when she figures out she can.

"IT is still a one step forward and two step back process it is called training"