Steadying a dog...
Steadying a dog...
Quicktime plays mp4 files.
Free download here:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/
The young dog in this video is now ready for me to move past him on point, to teach him how to properly behave on game. Prior to this session he learned that any movement after establishing point would cause the bird to flush.
The video demonstrates the steadying process that I most commonly use. It is a process that uses multiple launchers and requires repetition and a keen eye on the dog until the dog understands the manners on game that I am looking for.
In the video, I slowly move past the dog for the very first time, watching him carefully to ensure that he doesn't move. As I move in front of him he began to tense up, so I stopped, waited a moment and then launched the first bird.
During this critical phase, I don't want the dog to think that I am flushing the bird. I want him to believe that his movement, not mine, will cause the bird to flush as he learned in previous sessions when I remained behind him. This is important because I don't want him to feel that we are in competition. He will learn through repetition that we are a team.
After resetting the dog for the second bird, the dog is more staunch and allows me to move further toward the bird. This is a common response and a benefit of using multiple launchers during the same session. It allows the dog to advance more quickly and I can get very rapid results.
Another very important benefit from utilizing multiple launchers is that the dog will learn to "remain" staunch and intense after the bird flushes because he will always believe that there are additional birds. This helps to create the style after the flush that is important for me as a field trialer.
As the sessions continue the dog will learn to remain staunch and naturally break himself. Some break very quickly and some take more reps, but it is a process that I like because it is very low-key. The birds do the majority of the training for me and the dogs remain very intense.
http://www.caladenkennels.com/training/video/duke.mp4
I hope this helps and is of some benefit.
Ross.
Free download here:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/
The young dog in this video is now ready for me to move past him on point, to teach him how to properly behave on game. Prior to this session he learned that any movement after establishing point would cause the bird to flush.
The video demonstrates the steadying process that I most commonly use. It is a process that uses multiple launchers and requires repetition and a keen eye on the dog until the dog understands the manners on game that I am looking for.
In the video, I slowly move past the dog for the very first time, watching him carefully to ensure that he doesn't move. As I move in front of him he began to tense up, so I stopped, waited a moment and then launched the first bird.
During this critical phase, I don't want the dog to think that I am flushing the bird. I want him to believe that his movement, not mine, will cause the bird to flush as he learned in previous sessions when I remained behind him. This is important because I don't want him to feel that we are in competition. He will learn through repetition that we are a team.
After resetting the dog for the second bird, the dog is more staunch and allows me to move further toward the bird. This is a common response and a benefit of using multiple launchers during the same session. It allows the dog to advance more quickly and I can get very rapid results.
Another very important benefit from utilizing multiple launchers is that the dog will learn to "remain" staunch and intense after the bird flushes because he will always believe that there are additional birds. This helps to create the style after the flush that is important for me as a field trialer.
As the sessions continue the dog will learn to remain staunch and naturally break himself. Some break very quickly and some take more reps, but it is a process that I like because it is very low-key. The birds do the majority of the training for me and the dogs remain very intense.
http://www.caladenkennels.com/training/video/duke.mp4
I hope this helps and is of some benefit.
Ross.
Last edited by Yawallac on Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Ruffshooter
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 2946
- Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 7:28 pm
- Location: Maine
Good video Mr. Callaway:
?, Do you set this up that close as a rule or was that for the purpose of the video?
I use that same method for honoring drills. Never thought of multiples for the steadiness but makes wicked good sense.
That pup sure got the Idea.
?, Do you set this up that close as a rule or was that for the purpose of the video?
I use that same method for honoring drills. Never thought of multiples for the steadiness but makes wicked good sense.
That pup sure got the Idea.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.
Rick
Rick
-
- Rank: Junior Hunter
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:22 pm
- Location: lombard, , IL.
video
for some reason I can't play the video. sounds like a good one two.
I can't get it either. Probably because of my internet service; I,m lucky to have a phone out here!
I have read several times about using multiple launchers for different things and after reading what Ross had to say, I'm gonna give it a shot today with Bodie. It sounds like the secret is in not competeing with the dog for the bird, making the dog think it flushed the bird with movement and making the dog realize there may well be one more bird there. So simple it's hard to see!
I use the method of watching the dog closely as he described, but only to keep a dog from breaking. Where Ross stops, I start backing away then approach from a different angle. The critical point is to notice the dog start to tense up and then you must stop. At that point the competation for the bird ends and the dog settles back down. But as Ross said pop the bird right there and let the dog think it moved the bird AND have another bird waiting. I like that! Bodie is way ahead of where I thought he would be by now, gonna give it a try today.
Thanks Ross! Wish I could see the video.
I have read several times about using multiple launchers for different things and after reading what Ross had to say, I'm gonna give it a shot today with Bodie. It sounds like the secret is in not competeing with the dog for the bird, making the dog think it flushed the bird with movement and making the dog realize there may well be one more bird there. So simple it's hard to see!
I use the method of watching the dog closely as he described, but only to keep a dog from breaking. Where Ross stops, I start backing away then approach from a different angle. The critical point is to notice the dog start to tense up and then you must stop. At that point the competation for the bird ends and the dog settles back down. But as Ross said pop the bird right there and let the dog think it moved the bird AND have another bird waiting. I like that! Bodie is way ahead of where I thought he would be by now, gonna give it a try today.
Thanks Ross! Wish I could see the video.
Never set your dog up to fail - Delmar smith
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
Quicktime plays mp4 files.
Free download here:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/
ruff,
Early on I set up close so that I can get to the bird and still have the check cord in my hand. As things progress the pup will drag the check cord and find the birds on his own.
Don,
My dogs never see a single bird during training. They ALWAYS see nultiples 2,3 even 4 launchers at times. Multiple birds in multiple launchers, etc. They are trained to believe that another bird is always waiting, always. The ONLY time they see a single bird is at a field trial or while hunting. I'll shoot some video of Sarah to show the effects of multiple birds. She will not soften her point until I touch her, whether on a find or on a back she remains statue still ...waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Free download here:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/
ruff,
Early on I set up close so that I can get to the bird and still have the check cord in my hand. As things progress the pup will drag the check cord and find the birds on his own.
Don,
My dogs never see a single bird during training. They ALWAYS see nultiples 2,3 even 4 launchers at times. Multiple birds in multiple launchers, etc. They are trained to believe that another bird is always waiting, always. The ONLY time they see a single bird is at a field trial or while hunting. I'll shoot some video of Sarah to show the effects of multiple birds. She will not soften her point until I touch her, whether on a find or on a back she remains statue still ...waiting for the other shoe to drop.
- cgbirddogs
- Rank: Master Hunter
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:55 pm
- Location: Las Vegas
Ross I love the intensity the pup is showing. It is obvious your training style does not take the fire out of the pup, but actually makes it bolder. To me, that is one of the most important factors in breaking any dog: keeping the intensity. Many times you see dogs broke wing to shot without the intensity.
I've used multiple launchers in breaking a dog from creeping, or sometimes I might just pull a bird out of my bird bag and fly it right from behind his head while he is on point, just to keep him on his toes. Either way, the dog begins to associate bird/bird flight with "don't move".
I've used multiple launchers in breaking a dog from creeping, or sometimes I might just pull a bird out of my bird bag and fly it right from behind his head while he is on point, just to keep him on his toes. Either way, the dog begins to associate bird/bird flight with "don't move".
?
I use mutliple launchers for the same reasons you state.
What is the purpose of having them out in the wide open so the dog can see them?
Is the dog scent pointing?
Why did you let the dog go to the launchers after the second bird and then set it back?
Thanks for sharing. It is always interesting to see how people do things a little different than our own personal approaches.
Regards
Gary
What is the purpose of having them out in the wide open so the dog can see them?
Is the dog scent pointing?
Why did you let the dog go to the launchers after the second bird and then set it back?
Thanks for sharing. It is always interesting to see how people do things a little different than our own personal approaches.
Regards
Gary
- Windyhills
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 387
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:25 pm
- Location: Northern MN
cg,
Intensity is everything! (to me at least!) Did you get that pup yet!?!?
Yes, I see many young dogs like that. The dog must learn that it CAN NOT catch the bird. Generally, if you restrain the pup on the flush it will quickly learn that it can not catch the bird.
From the angle I brought the pup in he could not see the traps and he was scent pointing (until the first flush). Normally, I would use better cover and conceal the traps better. I set up for the benefit of the video as well. Good observation.
I let the pup go to the traps because I want him to confirm to himself that the birds are gone. This is all new to him and I want to build his confidence. It's not something that I will let continue for long, but for now it has a purpose.
I set him up again because I want him to experience standing under my control without hot scent. What wasn't shown was that I picked him up and carried him off after standing for a few moments. I believe that this solidifies the session in the pups mind. Not all agree on this but I believe it works and it speeds up the learning process. (watch the quick clip from today).
------------------
Here is a quick clip from today. The only thing that I want to show in this clip is the difference in how my pup responds after the flush. Watch closely, he doesn't chase! The difference that you can't see is that his eyes are not cutting back and forth between the bird and me. He is telling me that he understands that I am not an opponent!
He is now ready for the table to learn the command WHOA. He is well on his way to becoming a finished dog. I know this probably doesn't look like much, but to me it was a HUGE step forward from yesterday!!
What he is showing me is that he is willing to "cooperate". I know that there is nothing he would rather do than chase this bird ...and yet he doesn't. I'm going to get along very well with this young man!!
http://www.caladenkennels.com/training/video/duke02.mp4
Intensity is everything! (to me at least!) Did you get that pup yet!?!?
dog dr,have you ever come across a dog that intentionally moves so the bird will fly, so he can try and catch it?? and if so, about how long does it take him to figure out he cant catch it??
Yes, I see many young dogs like that. The dog must learn that it CAN NOT catch the bird. Generally, if you restrain the pup on the flush it will quickly learn that it can not catch the bird.
glk & windy,What is the purpose of having them out in the wide open so the dog can see them? Is the dog scent pointing? Why did you let the dog go to the launchers after the second bird and then set it back?
From the angle I brought the pup in he could not see the traps and he was scent pointing (until the first flush). Normally, I would use better cover and conceal the traps better. I set up for the benefit of the video as well. Good observation.
I let the pup go to the traps because I want him to confirm to himself that the birds are gone. This is all new to him and I want to build his confidence. It's not something that I will let continue for long, but for now it has a purpose.
I set him up again because I want him to experience standing under my control without hot scent. What wasn't shown was that I picked him up and carried him off after standing for a few moments. I believe that this solidifies the session in the pups mind. Not all agree on this but I believe it works and it speeds up the learning process. (watch the quick clip from today).
------------------
Here is a quick clip from today. The only thing that I want to show in this clip is the difference in how my pup responds after the flush. Watch closely, he doesn't chase! The difference that you can't see is that his eyes are not cutting back and forth between the bird and me. He is telling me that he understands that I am not an opponent!
He is now ready for the table to learn the command WHOA. He is well on his way to becoming a finished dog. I know this probably doesn't look like much, but to me it was a HUGE step forward from yesterday!!
What he is showing me is that he is willing to "cooperate". I know that there is nothing he would rather do than chase this bird ...and yet he doesn't. I'm going to get along very well with this young man!!
http://www.caladenkennels.com/training/video/duke02.mp4
Some folks PM'd saying they couldn't view the clips. I uploaded to Youtube. Hope this helps.
Clip #1
http://www.youtube.com/v/NI3bmvB9JMg
Clip #2
http://www.youtube.com/v/85CTgK8wFaU
BTW, I gave Duke the day off. Tomorrow, I will put him on the table and I'll tape it. After that it's back to the field.
Clip #1
http://www.youtube.com/v/NI3bmvB9JMg
Clip #2
http://www.youtube.com/v/85CTgK8wFaU
BTW, I gave Duke the day off. Tomorrow, I will put him on the table and I'll tape it. After that it's back to the field.
Finally got the videos. If I'm not mistaken, aren't you making the traps visible in the begining so that the dog understands theres more than one there? I can see where that would be a great advantage when switching to the field and having the traps hidden. I went right to the field the other day with Bodie and he went with the first bird. I don't check cord into birds any more. But I'm going to try that, with the check cord on Squirt this weekend, he's a bit behind Bodie. Not standing birds real well yet.
Never set your dog up to fail - Delmar smith
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
- Brushbustin Sporting Dogs
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:38 pm
- Location: Central Nebraska
Ross, I have very much enjoyed this thread with the videos. I have done work with dogs never before have I broke a dog fully out though. I do not have launchers but do dog on CC bird on a string. The thing I hate about the bird on a string thing is the bird flys not very far after Its flushed. But my young prospect is doing good. Today the first bird he tried to chase but the second bird he crouched alittle out of excitment but didn't take a step or anything. I have him so so whoa broke. Whats the next step after your young dog is standing through the flush? When do you do retreiving things with the dog? Hate to ask you for free help but I looked already its a long long drive from my house to yours.
Robert Myers
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
BSD,Hate to ask you for free help but I looked already its a long long drive from my house to yours.
Here was my response to a similar question on another forum but it is the same answer here.
I love training dogs. I can't believe that I can get paid to do it!! (not a lot mind you, but paid none the less!!)
In 1979 I had a GSP ordered from a breeder in MD where I lived. I heard about a group of training whackos that called themselves NAVHDA. To be precise it was the Potomac Chapter of NAVHDA. I joined and helped out planting birds and whatever I could do to help. I was waiting for my pup to arrive and figured I would learn as much as I could before I got him.
Here's the thing. Those members shared every bit of knowledge they had for free. They never expected any compensation. They just wanted to help. It was unbelievable and very much appreciated. Because of that I am always willing to share information for free.
Now, if someone wants to send me their dog or pup for training then I charge a fee, but if someone has a question I will always do my best to answer it as best I can. I can't imagine ever charging someone to answer questions.
I make money from folks that want a trained dog and don't have the time or resources to do it themselves. I will ALWAYS help anyone that wants to do it themselves for free ...and that is because of NAVHDA!
As soon as the dog demonstrates in the field that he is willing to cooperate and not chase the bird we then move to the table for formal whoa training. This dog did that very early on. Not all dogs do.
However....
This is the first whoa training on the table. The goal here is to teach the dog the command whoa. This usually takes only a few minutes. The next step is to add distractions with birds and the last step is to fly birds from the table and not move (the dog must cooperate in the first session!!).
This can take anywhere from a few minutes (literally) to a long session..... This boy took over 30 minutes. This will be the ONLY table session that lasts this long for this prospect but I do not shorten this step. It takes as long as it takes!!
I have edited the 30+ min. clip to three very short clips to make the important points.
Clip #1 took approximately 10 min. The goal for this step was to teach the dog the command whoa. He must understand the command and allow me to lift a bird bag to the table.
http://www.youtube.com/v/BUsAdHLQEnA
Clip #2 took longer than most prospects (approximately 21 min.), however he finally figured it out. He allowed me to distract him while showing me that he understood that he must remain still and not move.
http://www.youtube.com/v/FiJlx4tzbI8
Clip #3 shows the youngster remaining still while a quail is released from the table without moving. All of this MUST be accomplished during the first session on the table. Subsequent sessions will be easier for both the prospect and the trainer!
http://www.youtube.com/v/gtwZW7KwfMc
We will return to the table for additional sessions before we return to the field. The dog must learn to be steady on the table before we go back to the field. I will TURN UP THE HEAT on the table moving forward.
However....
This is the first whoa training on the table. The goal here is to teach the dog the command whoa. This usually takes only a few minutes. The next step is to add distractions with birds and the last step is to fly birds from the table and not move (the dog must cooperate in the first session!!).
This can take anywhere from a few minutes (literally) to a long session..... This boy took over 30 minutes. This will be the ONLY table session that lasts this long for this prospect but I do not shorten this step. It takes as long as it takes!!
I have edited the 30+ min. clip to three very short clips to make the important points.
Clip #1 took approximately 10 min. The goal for this step was to teach the dog the command whoa. He must understand the command and allow me to lift a bird bag to the table.
http://www.youtube.com/v/BUsAdHLQEnA
Clip #2 took longer than most prospects (approximately 21 min.), however he finally figured it out. He allowed me to distract him while showing me that he understood that he must remain still and not move.
http://www.youtube.com/v/FiJlx4tzbI8
Clip #3 shows the youngster remaining still while a quail is released from the table without moving. All of this MUST be accomplished during the first session on the table. Subsequent sessions will be easier for both the prospect and the trainer!
http://www.youtube.com/v/gtwZW7KwfMc
We will return to the table for additional sessions before we return to the field. The dog must learn to be steady on the table before we go back to the field. I will TURN UP THE HEAT on the table moving forward.
- Brushbustin Sporting Dogs
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:38 pm
- Location: Central Nebraska
So by putting whoa together with birds dog will transition this to standing birds as the fly away correct? I excited to watch you finish this dog out. How do you teach him to stand thru the flush until you release him? Thats probably the hard part? This is great information I can't thank you enough. This is similar to Dons way of breaking a dog from his info I've read on here but the videos are worth a thousand words.
Robert Myers
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
I gave Duke another table session this morning (much shorter), did great.
Decided to put him on birds in the field late this afternoon. Should have had the camera but didn't!! He took one step on the flush and stopped to my verbal whoa (without the help of the check cord) "He" stopped. Worked and flushed the second bird. Perfect.
Carried him to the chain gang and put out two more launchers in a new spot. Worked those two birds. Both perfect. I'll tape the field session tomorrow.
This is too easy!
Decided to put him on birds in the field late this afternoon. Should have had the camera but didn't!! He took one step on the flush and stopped to my verbal whoa (without the help of the check cord) "He" stopped. Worked and flushed the second bird. Perfect.
Carried him to the chain gang and put out two more launchers in a new spot. Worked those two birds. Both perfect. I'll tape the field session tomorrow.
This is too easy!
The whoa command is used. On the first bird he took a step and would have tried to chase but I stopped him with a hard verbal whoa. He stopped. ...I could see the gears turning in his head. He put some things together out there this afternoon.How do you teach him to stand thru the flush until you release him?
Getting there ....but a ways to go!!
http://www.youtube.com/v/f1Cfz7YQsn4
The wind was wrong today so I cut the session short. The birds are going to fly to the woods and the wind was blowing to the woods. That made the birds fly over him and I didn't want to apply that much stress today. He did alright and stopped to the verbal command. I just prefer the sessions to be set up better to accomplish the goals for a particular session.
http://www.youtube.com/v/f1Cfz7YQsn4
The wind was wrong today so I cut the session short. The birds are going to fly to the woods and the wind was blowing to the woods. That made the birds fly over him and I didn't want to apply that much stress today. He did alright and stopped to the verbal command. I just prefer the sessions to be set up better to accomplish the goals for a particular session.
- Brushbustin Sporting Dogs
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:38 pm
- Location: Central Nebraska
Nice I find myself looking close at the dog cause I just cant believe he has came that far in such a short time. Do you train in two sessions a day? Its dark here as I read this but makes me want to go work my pup now cause thats awesome. Set my pup up on the table. He hates it and is nervous but once I say whoa he doesn't move bird in hand no movement bird fly away no movement. So he did this good first bird he pointed he happy footed it and I restrained him with the CC next bird I made him stand for a long time longest yet never moved a muscle flew bird and it only went 10 feet (quail) he stood it never tried to move I picked him up and put him away. Had a short day today did yardwork whoa as I had to guide hunters but he coming along. Thanks so much Ross keep em coming
Robert Myers
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
One session per day. Sometimes I skip a day and sometimes I'll give the dog two but really once a day is plenty.
Another drill for your dog is to put him at whoa on the ground. Release birds in front of him. Sometimes I'll dizzy them and let them wake and fly away. Sometimes I just let them fly when I open my hand. I want to be sure where the birds will fly when released. I don't want them flying toward the dog ...yet.
I usually do about 6 birds per session. I want the dog to get used to watching birds fly away. It must become second nature for the dog. It's no longer the big deal to see them flush and fly away. It is a systematic desensitization.
Eventually, I will even throw pigeons toward them and expect them to remain motionless. ...later.
Another drill for your dog is to put him at whoa on the ground. Release birds in front of him. Sometimes I'll dizzy them and let them wake and fly away. Sometimes I just let them fly when I open my hand. I want to be sure where the birds will fly when released. I don't want them flying toward the dog ...yet.
I usually do about 6 birds per session. I want the dog to get used to watching birds fly away. It must become second nature for the dog. It's no longer the big deal to see them flush and fly away. It is a systematic desensitization.
Eventually, I will even throw pigeons toward them and expect them to remain motionless. ...later.
- Brushbustin Sporting Dogs
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:38 pm
- Location: Central Nebraska
I usually work only one too two birds in a session but you would be able to accomplish more by using 6 birds a day for opportunity. I like the term "systematic desensitization". by making the dog use to something and not making a big deal about were really training him to do something by doing little to teach him. Let him see it don't let him chase give him many opportunities to mess up and just keep him controlled through it all. And actually with my whoa training toinight we were on the ground he wasn't as steady as he had been but I corrected him everytime he tried to move didn't use a live bird just had a dead bird handy let him smell and threw it twice and he didn't move probably more effective with a live bird in flight though. I think your pup is a head of mine but I should be on track to have him broke out this summer to run broke dog stakes this fall. Thanks again Ross
Robert Myers
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
Got two three things to say here. Don't know where you learned that Ross but it does sound an awful lot like what I do, I just do it on the ground. Funny part is you live a continent away and I've never met you!
Ryan,
Don't find out the hard way that choke collar can hang your dog. Also when you do have a use for it, put it on right. That is backwards. When the dog is at heel with the leash on, when you have a loose leash, the collar won't release. Turn it around so that the end with the leash attached comes over the top of the neck and it will release. Unless of course your left handed and heel the dog on the right in which case the ring would be on the other side of the neck.
I use a choke on the whoa post and for obedience but I'm going to try one of the command leads for obedience. They just make sense to me.
Ryan,
Don't find out the hard way that choke collar can hang your dog. Also when you do have a use for it, put it on right. That is backwards. When the dog is at heel with the leash on, when you have a loose leash, the collar won't release. Turn it around so that the end with the leash attached comes over the top of the neck and it will release. Unless of course your left handed and heel the dog on the right in which case the ring would be on the other side of the neck.
I use a choke on the whoa post and for obedience but I'm going to try one of the command leads for obedience. They just make sense to me.
Never set your dog up to fail - Delmar smith
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
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- Rank: Master Hunter
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Ross, I really like this stuff, please keep posting it. Love the idea of having the 2 launchers for a imediate follow up on what the dog just did.
Chad
Chad
"GET THE POINT" http://www.phillipsgundogs.com Family and Shorthairs, it don't get any better than that!
Phillips' Tiptoe'n Tucker MH
Phillips' Lucy in Diguise SH
Phillips' Tiptoe'n Tucker MH
Phillips' Lucy in Diguise SH
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- Rank: Master Hunter
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Very nice, I am glad you posted this, I have a 1 yr old dog that finished his JH on Sun and is ready to be broke starting this month, I am going to try some of your methods with some of mine. Thanks
Chad
Chad
"GET THE POINT" http://www.phillipsgundogs.com Family and Shorthairs, it don't get any better than that!
Phillips' Tiptoe'n Tucker MH
Phillips' Lucy in Diguise SH
Phillips' Tiptoe'n Tucker MH
Phillips' Lucy in Diguise SH
It's the basic NAVHDA training table. The instructions for building it can be found in the NAVHDA Green book I believe.
http://www.navhda.org
http://www.navhda.org
Ross I have a question for you.
As I watch your postings I observed one thing. In the past the rule of thumb has been "whoa" is not for birds. Meaning that it is taught away from birds until the dog totally understands what is asked of him (stand still and grow roots). Once the dog shows he fully understands the command should you introduce the command with birds and start taking away the chase and making him a steady bird dog. In your videos it shows you jumping straight to using birds to teach whoa.
So my question is did you teach this pup the command "whoa" prior to the introduction of birds?
I noticed this in your second video when you flushed the birds you were commanding the dog to whoa when in the third video you started to teach it with birds.
I am just trying to get an understanding of your approach. It may be confusing to some training there first dog if they didnt take the proper approach as you and possibly creating an issue later.
FWIW
As I watch your postings I observed one thing. In the past the rule of thumb has been "whoa" is not for birds. Meaning that it is taught away from birds until the dog totally understands what is asked of him (stand still and grow roots). Once the dog shows he fully understands the command should you introduce the command with birds and start taking away the chase and making him a steady bird dog. In your videos it shows you jumping straight to using birds to teach whoa.
So my question is did you teach this pup the command "whoa" prior to the introduction of birds?
I noticed this in your second video when you flushed the birds you were commanding the dog to whoa when in the third video you started to teach it with birds.
I am just trying to get an understanding of your approach. It may be confusing to some training there first dog if they didnt take the proper approach as you and possibly creating an issue later.
FWIW
Casper,
I don't teach whoa until the pup demonstrates cooperation on birds. In other words, once the pup begins to let "me" flush the bird he is telling me that he is ready to be broke. As soon as he lets me flush the bird we go straight to the table in his next session of training. He then is officially taught the command whoa.
I can generally teach the meaning of the command very quickly on the table. As soon as he understands the command I introduce birds on the table. Then we go to the ground and then back to the field. This process can be very quick, as with this pup, or it can take a while.
But that is how I determine the timing for the whoa command. It's based on the pup "telling" me he is ready to be broke by letting me flush the bird.
I don't teach whoa until the pup demonstrates cooperation on birds. In other words, once the pup begins to let "me" flush the bird he is telling me that he is ready to be broke. As soon as he lets me flush the bird we go straight to the table in his next session of training. He then is officially taught the command whoa.
I can generally teach the meaning of the command very quickly on the table. As soon as he understands the command I introduce birds on the table. Then we go to the ground and then back to the field. This process can be very quick, as with this pup, or it can take a while.
But that is how I determine the timing for the whoa command. It's based on the pup "telling" me he is ready to be broke by letting me flush the bird.
Videos
I have a quick question. I am assuming your are force breaking most of your dogs to get them to retrieve back to hand or do they normally do that naturally for you or don't you worry about their retrieve?
My question is, if you never use just a single bird, isn't more difficult to get the dog to make a dependable retrieve every time even if you have forced him?
I have run into that in the passed so I generally do it a little opposite of how you are showing but whatever method works for each individual is the way to go.
I have trained with several different pro's over the years that trained both field trial labs and pointing dogs and almost every one of them did things a little different then the next guy while getting the same outcome.
Nice videos.
My question is, if you never use just a single bird, isn't more difficult to get the dog to make a dependable retrieve every time even if you have forced him?
I have run into that in the passed so I generally do it a little opposite of how you are showing but whatever method works for each individual is the way to go.
I have trained with several different pro's over the years that trained both field trial labs and pointing dogs and almost every one of them did things a little different then the next guy while getting the same outcome.
Nice videos.
Yawallac wrote: I don't teach whoa until the pup demonstrates cooperation on birds. In other words, once the pup begins to let "me" flush the bird he is telling me that he is ready to be broke.
Yawallac,
I am a little confused because in the past, you have made posts demonstrating your technique of young pups "whoaing" on your workbench with a quail on top of a baseball bucket. Were you not verbalizing whoa then? Were you doing that to condition the pup to your multiple launcher system? Or were you "whoaing" them informally then and you are just formalizing it once they demonstrate they are ready with multiple launcher system.
Or is this a situation that you do it one way with your personal pups that you have from 8 weeks on, and then another way with the older dogs that come to you for training which you had no hand in laying the foundation?
littleriver,My question is, if you never use just a single bird, isn't more difficult to get the dog to make a dependable retrieve every time even if you have forced him?
The next step for this dog is to start killing birds. That will put the pieces together for him. I'll drop the second bird and begin the retrieving phase. I've not found the steadiness training to have a negative effect on the retrieving phase. Some retrieve naturally and some don't.
I assess each dog's ability when we get to that point and make a game plan. I FF my dogs, but as you know, a dog with natural retrieving instinct is much easier to FF than a dog with little retrieving instinct. If the pup was my personal pup he would have had the retrieving instinct nurtured from a very young age.
I am a little confused because in the past, you have made posts demonstrating your technique of young pups "whoaing" on your workbench with a quail on top of a baseball bucket. Were you not verbalizing whoa then? Were you doing that to condition the pup to your multiple launcher system? Or were you "whoaing" them informally then and you are just formalizing it once they demonstrate they are ready with multiple launcher system.
Az Draht,
As soon as the pup allows "me" to flush the bird he goes to the table for formal whoa training. The pics that I posted on the work bench were of pups at that point in training (or dogs that had already been through it.) They had demonstrated cooperation on birds in the field. I use that as the indicator for whoa training.
Pups that I raise usually finish around 8 months. I break them earlier than most but I don't put any pressure on them so there are no negative effects on the dogs style. When the pup is ready to be broke he tells me and we do it very quickly.
Thanks for clariying,Yawallac wrote:[
As soon as the pup allows "me" to flush the bird he goes to the table for formal whoa training. The pics that I posted on the work bench were of pups at that point in training (or dogs that had already been through it.) They had demonstrated cooperation on birds in the field. I use that as the indicator for whoa training.
Pups that I raise usually finish around 8 months. I break them earlier than most but I don't put any pressure on them so there are no negative effects on the dogs style. When the pup is ready to be broke he tells me and we do it very quickly.
At the time you originally posted those pics on the versatile dogs forum, I thought they were of very young pups (8-14 weeks). I must have been mistaken.
googd video
this just proves, the $600 cost for launchers is well worth it
This is Jazzy, a 10 mo. old GSP pup. Formal field work begins....
http://www.youtube.com/v/HxSJwMmtdYg
http://www.youtube.com/v/HxSJwMmtdYg
- Brushbustin Sporting Dogs
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:38 pm
- Location: Central Nebraska
Another fine dog Ross. How about moving to Nebraska to do some training I'd have some work for ya.
Robert Myers
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
- Brushbustin Sporting Dogs
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:38 pm
- Location: Central Nebraska
So Ross my young prospect that I've been working this system on or close to don't have remote launchers just manual. I had done some whoa work before reading your thread and have done follow up close to your system and in the yard of leash he'll whoa 99 % time and stand like a gentlemen. Birds out of launcher he'll stand and watch. Wild birds he just chases the heck out of them. I'm getting pigeions this weekend have been doing chukar out of launcher and there just not as exciting as a pigieon they reallly get going, but why so good in training not so good when I'm trying to have fun time with him?? Do you see a slip in your dogs once on wild birds? Do I need to focus solely on training and not take him on fun runs where he might find a bird to chase?
Robert Myers
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
Rajin Kennel
308-870-3448
Brittanys are Best enough said...
BBD's Ca-Ching
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1061
Brushbustin's Ebbie SH
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=678
BNJ's Dirty Dozen Dixie
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=869
I made a table using the little foldable aluminum platforms they sell at Home Depot and attaching them to thick ply wood . If you go to the NAVHDA I think they have plans posted for how to make one. Mine has a ramp on either end with strips on the ramps so the dog has something to keep him from slipping. The table in in two halves...and the ramp is hinged to each half so I can fold the ramp up on each half of the table, and fold the legs up underneath to transport it if I wish. Only one peice of plywood is needed. I then painted it with nonslip paint (the stuff with sand in it) in a light color (dark colors can burn their feet in hot weather).gozz21 wrote:great videos. i really appreciate you taking the time to video some of your training sessions. One question, how did you make your training table? any suggestions?