Springer Spaniel Training Help

[WeiMe]

Hi everybody!
I'm looking for spaniel owners that could lend some advise...
Here's some background info:
Two years ago from August my parents were given an English Springer Spaniel pup. Now a year ago I purchased a weimaraner and I have been actively training her for FT's, HT's but most importantly...bird hunting.
I took my father to a NAVHDA test and he had a blast. He now is contemplating about training the springer but has no clue how to start.
IMO, the spaniel is borderline sensitive/soft. -The thing she has going for her is she's extremely biddable.
I took her out one day and introduced her to quail and she has no interest. -As a matter of fact, she jumped over a bush where one was holding... :roll:
-BUT she's all about the birds when they take her for a walk or if she smells them in the garage.
Her attitude out in the field is, "WHEE- this is fun!" While the weim has an intense look on her face, "Gotta find the bird, gotta find the bird."
As far as retrieving goes, she use too but now she's turned it into a game. The weim retrieves and the spaniel attempts to play "cut-off." So more playing fetch with both of them at the same time. On the other hand, if you command the spaniel to "hold it" she will hold and carry just about anything in her mouth until you give the release command.

I've never trained a flushing dog and I don't have a clue where to start. Sometimes I think she's birdie and the other times I think she could care less. If she's just a good pet dog, that's OK too. I would just would like other's opinions.

Thank you so much!

[TimH]

I start all of this by saying I am not a pro. Just a normal hunter with a hunting spaniel.
First and most important is your dog from a hunting background of any kind? If it is from the show line and it doesn't have much hunting instinct you are in for a long uphill battle. Check out the difference online - it shouldn't take long to figure out they actually look quite different.
Second a dog is a dog as far as training goes, I have learned just as much from pointer people about how to actually train the dog. It is pretty hard to find good springer info, but pointer people seem to be able to go on and on about training. This site is by far my biggest resource. I work the dog and when I run in to a problem I start researching and asking questions on here. By training I guess I mean the way you handle the animal not the things you teach it. Examples would be obedience, intro to the gun, retrieves, socialization.
Finally if you want to hunt with a springer you need to establish total control - you need to be able to "hup" (sit) the dog anywhere and anytime before you can accomplish much at all. Without that you have a UGM (un-guided missile) in the bush. These are the commands I use, they suit me and my style.
Sit (one tweet on the whistle)
Here (multiple tweets)
Change Direction (hand signal and two tweets)
Hunt close (releases him and cues him that we are hunting)
Hunt dead (find a bird that he didn't mark)
Fetch (retrieve a bird he marked)
My dog is not steady to wing and shot but very obedient and he is a riot to hunt behind. It is very chaotic compared to a pointer hunt.
That will really do everything you need. My dog hunts grouse, ducks, geese, deer, rabbits, pheasants and anything else that moves or breathes.

[WeiMe]

I appreciate the reply.
Yes, she's from bench lines and the only thing that would be characteristic of field is the flagging on the tail and she's more white than liver. The sire was hunted but the dam never did any field work.

She knows the command hup very well and she's always willing to please. BUT from what you said it sounds like my parents are in for a headache.

I'd love to see spaniels work the field, I'm sure it's a blast.

[spaniel_man]

Before giving up on this dog, I think I would plant a couple pigeons with there wings taped up, and then work the dog through the area. Since the dog may not understant what it is smelling at first you may have to actually show the dog the first bird. Once the dog sees the bird flapping around i would suspect it would go right for it. I'm not a pro, but I think this exercise should give you an idea of how much prey drive this dog has, and it is even a little should awaken the beast from within. Good luck and keep us posted on the progress.

[TimH]

I'd second trying to work with the dog to introduce birds, it isn't worth giving up on the dog. But my job was made so much easier as a novice trainer having a dog that really wanted to hunt right from the get go. At the very least get the dog comfortable around the gun so that you can enjoy a day of hunting with the dog. Even if he isn't very good he will still put up an awful lot of game.

[WeiMe]

No worries! I won't give up on the spaniel. I'm very stubborn...LOL!
On thing my weim taught me, PATIENCE. My father once commented how much patience I have with her but it has payed off tremendously.
I completely agree with you TimH, it makes it SO much easier when you have a dog that WANTS to hunt.
The good thing, the spaniel is already used to gun-fire. We began introducing her over a year ago, (she was running out in the field with the weim who was chasing a bird) and now she doesn't mind the shotgun. - She has not been shot over, but I'll work on that.

This weekend I'll be picking up a few birds after the NAVHDA testing, but now I'll be adding a few more for the spaniel.
I plan on training the weim Sunday so I'll take the spaniel out with me as well.

Again, I thank the both of you for your help. I will keep you posted after I take her out on Sunday. -Wish me luck!

[WeiMe]

Alright...last weekend at our NAVHDA handler's clinic, I was able to obtain a couple of Chukars and numerous quail.
When I brought the birds home, the spaniel was all over them...pressing her nose to the crate etc... I thought, "great" -at least she's interested.

A day later I set the Chukars in the field and she ignored them. She was running around as if she was out for a Sunday walk, and forget about using her nose because that was out of the question. -No wait, she ran around and sniffed out holes in the ground. One time, she jumped right over a Chukar and paid it no mind. When we flushed it, she wanted to chase (which we allowed her) but she got bored and began running in another direction.
IMO, she was out there to run around and have fun. SHE HAS NO IDEA why she's out there.
So she's interested in the birds at home but out in the field, she just doesn't know. :roll:
So where should I take it from here?

Thanks!

[TimH]

Has she had a bird in her mouth after you shot it? That was the point where mine went from loving birds to being obsessed with birds.

[gonehuntin']

Never work her with your other dog. Take her out alone. Instead of planting birds for her, throw clip wing pigeons for her to retrieve. Once she becomes a bird-a-holic, then start obedience training her. Be careful, you may not have much to work with. Bird's first, all else later.

[WeiMe]

Thank you so much for the replies. -As for the bird in her mouth, she has yet to pick one up. I'll try my best to entice her to pick it up. She USE to fetch well then she began playing a cut-off game with any dog that was retrieving. Consequently we no longer play fetch. As I stated she'll "hold it" if commanded too but it's getting her to walk over and pick up the object. I was contemplating about FF but she's a soft dog and I don't know if I'd be pushing it.

Never work her with your other dog. Take her out alone.

Yes, I know now. I took the both of them quail hunting and I learned my lesson.
My mother insisted we had to take her out when we went quail hunting (with the weim...) and the spaniel was just running around looking for holes. :roll: I thought it would also distract the weim, but I was far from the truth. If anything, the springer really got a work out THAT day.

[47sgs]

I've had two male springers at a time for the last 30 years, have hunted them, trialed them, and had them as house pets. I would agree with most of what TimH has to say. I use the exact commands he does, and have found springers quite easy to train because they want to please so much. At present, I have switched to english setters, more just to try something new as any reason.
I am not a trainer or pro trialer, just a dog lover. I would agree with a couple items mentioned earlier. The breeding is pretty important if you're doing NAVDA. You need a dog that's birdy. An adult dog that's field bred but never seen birds can be stimulated to get birdy the same way a puppy can. Use clip wing pidgeons and let him chase them, use homers and throw them out in front of him when he's distracted, whatever you can do to get him excited about birds. If you can't get this to happen, I'm not sure how much more effort you want to put into it. Second, when you work in the field, do it with one dog at a time. Having two out is for more advanced training, such as honoring another dogs flush, or honoring another dogs retieve. Lastly, good spaniels have a stong retieving instinct, so most will want to retieve when given the chance. Those that can't be coaxed into doing it, can be force fetched by someone that knows what they are doing quite easily, so your retieving can be solved
Good luck with it. I really have a soft spot for springer, so I hope it works out for you.

[WeiMe]

Thank you 47sgs.

It's my parent's springer spaniel and I'm attempting to train it. I don't have pigeons yet, but I hope to obtain some this weekend through NAVHDA.
She is not considered a versatile hunting dog therefore I can't test her like the weim, but we can hunt with her. (If she ends up being birdy...keeping my fingers crossed)

I will try everything to entice her with birds. She's just never really been introduced to them the way I would have liked. -Come to think of it, she's never been introduced to birds except in the past few months!

I'll take her out with pigeons and let everybody know how it turns out.
Since you have been around springers, I may have my father PM you, if that's ok!