Is there a such thing as overdoing it?
Is there a such thing as overdoing it?
I have a 13wk old GSP. He will point planted birds in the launcher and already i can walk by him to flush..he has alot of prey drive in him..I have been using the Perfect Start methods of training..I was just wondering if it was possible to over do it with training with birds, like how much training time should be put into a pup of this age?
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You betcha you can over-do puppy bird work!
Might bore 'em and dull their interest - or you might send 'em "one toke over the line" and see good behavior blow up into a wilding spree that sets you back.
Better to work a bird or two well then let pup go rip, roar, explore and develop his independent hunt for a while in a likely birdless area before showing him another bird.
(Maybe I shoulda put an avatar showing one of my pointing dogs with this one???)
Might bore 'em and dull their interest - or you might send 'em "one toke over the line" and see good behavior blow up into a wilding spree that sets you back.
Better to work a bird or two well then let pup go rip, roar, explore and develop his independent hunt for a while in a likely birdless area before showing him another bird.
(Maybe I shoulda put an avatar showing one of my pointing dogs with this one???)
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Your schedule might work but i wouldn't be doing what you are doing till the pup is 10 or 12 months. I want my young pups running, exploring, and learning what objectives look like. There will be plenty of time to teah the pup how you want it done but first he has to learn where and how to find a bird. You are cheating him out of his learning time sometimes called happy time.
Ezzy
Ezzy
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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207
It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
We could have quite a debate over that.
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- kninebirddog
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Yes you can over do it
Leaving a pup wanting more is very very key at a young age
get a pup looking like an adult dog can lead to burn out down the raod also
like when a little league player who does a great job then gets pushed to far by over zealous parents and coaches ... burns out and quits
keep the field shorrt and fun
keep sessions short and fun
nothing wrong with some bird work ...i only work my baby pups maybe once a week on birds on average ....to easy to get excited when they do well to want to do more...that can lead pushing to failure to fast
so just remember a 13 week old is a puppy...and in a few weeks he will change and that angelic stage will pass to testing and figuring out paramters and spreading his wings...expect it it is part of their growing up
Leaving a pup wanting more is very very key at a young age
get a pup looking like an adult dog can lead to burn out down the raod also
like when a little league player who does a great job then gets pushed to far by over zealous parents and coaches ... burns out and quits
keep the field shorrt and fun
keep sessions short and fun
nothing wrong with some bird work ...i only work my baby pups maybe once a week on birds on average ....to easy to get excited when they do well to want to do more...that can lead pushing to failure to fast
so just remember a 13 week old is a puppy...and in a few weeks he will change and that angelic stage will pass to testing and figuring out paramters and spreading his wings...expect it it is part of their growing up
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"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
He always has fun when we go out to the field...When he sees the checkcord he gets really excited because he knows its time to have fun...I do not push anything on him at this time.. when introducing to birds I went to the methods of the Perfect Start video and when he moves the bird flies..After a few times he learnt not to move..
Perhaps if you train a pup as you would an adult dog and also carry the training into early field time, rather than play training and compartmentalizing it from a balance of field time where pup's free to develop independent hunt. Never tried the former, but know the later turns out well mannered and happy hard hunters without the need for "breaking" tactics down the road.vzkennels wrote:Unless you want a mechanical dog that is more like a robot then a dog that can do things on his own I have to agree with Ezzy.Too much obedience at too early age can relly take out their style & idependence.Let him be a puppy & have some fun first.
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- WildRose
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Re: Is there a such thing as overdoing it?
You can absolutely over do training especially with a pup of that age.MasterScout wrote:I have a 13wk old GSP. He will point planted birds in the launcher and already i can walk by him to flush..he has alot of prey drive in him..I have been using the Perfect Start methods of training..I was just wondering if it was possible to over do it with training with birds, like how much training time should be put into a pup of this age?
For the most part for the first year all my dogs get is a little work on here, playing fetch, and all the running in wild bird country I can manage for them.
They need time to enjoy being a puppy and growing up and learning what it's all about before any pressure is put on them.
Too much, too soon, too often can and does cause problems later with confidence (result flagging on game) and independence (end result dog afraid to range out and hunt) both of which can be very difficult to work through later.
A dog that learns to have fun and be bold young will be one that's a whole lot harder to screw up down the road when it is time to put the pressure on them. CR
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Don't know that being bold and having fun has a whole lot to do with how they take to steadying later. I've seen run offs that won't take any pressure whatsoever.
However, so many want to "train" their dogs so they put them on tons of pen birds as they hear and read "birds, birds, birds". Training includes socializing, getting them out with older dogs who have good range to help the dog develop range, planting birds on far edges to get them to range, putting them on as many wild birds as possible, etc. The dog is only 3 months old, pretty young to be too excited about the dog wanting to be steady. So many at that age, haven't even developed enough to know to chase. It's wonderful to have a dog that wants to please. But, get the dog to depending so much on you he doesn't learn to hunt and actually search for birds will create problems down the road. Get him out to free run with no birds, short cut fields, little heavy cover, don't hack at him, let him learn that independent searching is a positive trait.
However, so many want to "train" their dogs so they put them on tons of pen birds as they hear and read "birds, birds, birds". Training includes socializing, getting them out with older dogs who have good range to help the dog develop range, planting birds on far edges to get them to range, putting them on as many wild birds as possible, etc. The dog is only 3 months old, pretty young to be too excited about the dog wanting to be steady. So many at that age, haven't even developed enough to know to chase. It's wonderful to have a dog that wants to please. But, get the dog to depending so much on you he doesn't learn to hunt and actually search for birds will create problems down the road. Get him out to free run with no birds, short cut fields, little heavy cover, don't hack at him, let him learn that independent searching is a positive trait.
- WildRose
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I think there's a huge difference in a pup that is bold and confindent and a self hunting run off that sees it's owner as nothing but transportation to the field.
Blake, isn't this "
Blake, isn't this "
pretty much a repeat of what I said hereBut, get the dog to depending so much on you he doesn't learn to hunt and actually search for birds will create problems down the road. Get him out to free run with no birds, short cut fields, little heavy cover, don't hack at him, let him learn that independent searching is a positive trait.
with respect to range and independance. If so I don't know what we're in disagreement over. CRToo much, too soon, too often can and does cause problems later with confidence (result flagging on game) and independence (end result dog afraid to range out and hunt) both of which can be very difficult to work through later.
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- WildRose
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Smitty with Cracker and Sissy as well as a few hundred before I did the same thing. However I didn't use any pressure at all to get them staunch, just let them figure it all out on their own. Not even a cc'd involved.smittysmith777 wrote:I like my dogs holding birds and shooting over them at 16 weeks. I was shooting birds over my last pup at 13 weeks old that dog is now 15 months and I have shot 235 birds over himand is allready all the dog Icould ever hope for great dog steady&retrieves
It's very easy though to over do the "training" hands on/physical or collar work on young pups though which absolutely does often cause problems later down the line.
As a rule most of my own personal dogs I've always simply started them by taking them hunting, then we work on the discipline and obedience after the first season. It works quite well whether they are three months old or 20 months old as long as they know "Here" and to stay out front. CR
There's a reason I like dogs better'n people
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"A dog that learns to have fun and be bold young will be one that's a whole lot harder to screw up down the road when it is time to put the pressure on them. CR"
That was where I disagreed Charlie. Being bold and independent has litte to do with how a dog will react to pressure later on. Some of the softest dogs I've seen were some of the boldest most independent dogs.
That was where I disagreed Charlie. Being bold and independent has litte to do with how a dog will react to pressure later on. Some of the softest dogs I've seen were some of the boldest most independent dogs.