Natural Ablilities Testing ?'s

[BluffCountryOutdoors]

Greetings all,


I have my pup up for a Natural Abilities Test this June. I've recieved letters from the LMCNA as well as my Kennel on what to expect but both have been kind of vauge. My questions to anyone of interest are:

A) What is it really all about? Besides field work is there Water work? What is included in one or both of these tests?

B) How best to prepare for this test?

C) Any Tips or Pointers.

I've been working with my dog for the 9 months of his life and feel pretty confident about his ability. His point is probably what lacks the most due to winter being so long here in Minnesota. We lost a lot of training during the winter, inside a lot. He knows his verbal and hand signals as well the whistle well. I'm not going for some amazing testing dog, just my hunting buddy and companion. Thanks for any help on this topic!

-Mikey & Odin

[bnjburgess]

I'm assuming you're testing with NAVHDA. If your dog points birds you pretty much have the field work done. They have to hunt and point birds. They don't have to hold and it's ok if they chase when the bird flushes. In my experience it's best to say very little to the dog, let it hunt. Your dog will also have to track a released pheasant and swim. In the water work you just throw a bumper out and the dog has to swim. It does not have to retrieve. You don't have to wing the bumper way out either, just enough for a few swimming strokes. Check out their website too NAVHDA.org.

good luck

[BluffCountryOutdoors]

Thanks man,


My pup was doing well with commands and he would definatly find the birds.. would point for a bit but then chase. He definatly retrieves wild pheasants for me. He also understands WHOA.. and will stop as soon as I say it.

Water seems to be someting he is comfortable with.. when we go fishing he runs along and goes in the water.. just not really swimming yet, but now that the weather is warming up .. we will be hitting the lake right outside my place almost daily.. swimming together and throwing dummies.

Thanks for the info.

Mikey

[wems2371]

Will the club that is hosting your June test, be having a mock test? I don't know if all clubs do that, but the two here in Iowa have a mock test 1 month prior to the real test. We had our mock test last month, and it was good as a 1st timer to get a feel for things and see how the pup would do. That would be your best bet and you could ask all the questions you wanted............also visit the NAVHDA site for a description of what's expected.

From what I've read here, learned from my club, and at the mock test--you probably want to give as few commands as possible. The more your dog looks trained--the more they will expect from it or look down on it as it's overtrained for a NA test. So I wouldn't use whoa at all. Also--don't count on your commands working anyway. I have/had a very well trained steady point , but when she got out in the giant field and her first chukar flew about 400' at about 4' off the ground...............all her training leaked out of her ears and she was off and running after it.

There are probably quite a few good threads on this topic. I posted this a few weeks ago, and you might be able to get some good tips from those who responded to it. If my link doesn't come up right, you can view my posts and this was titled NAVHDA NA Hunt Test Question. Good luck. Denise (testing this weekend)

http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... 69&t=12084

[yakky'sgriff]

I just ran my dog thru the NA test in March...What I have seen and read is the tracking portion is the test that gets a lot of dogs. If you havent been training for tracking I would start...

[phermes1]

Tracking kills a lot of scores, from what I've seen. My dogs missed perfect score because they had issues with tracking. And at every training session to that point, the female had been tracking like a dream. I let her go that day and she decided she'd rather hunt than track - arrgghh.

To train for tracking, most people recommend using a ketchup squeeze bottle filled with water and dog food - or water and pheasant scent. Spray the solution on the ground to create a track, maybe with a treat every few feet. Get the dog and put him at the start of the track. Pat the ground, say 'track!' several times, and make sure he smells the track and his attention is on it before releasing him. Ideally, he follows the track to the first treat, eats it, and figures out, "hey, 'track' means follow this scent on the ground, and this scent will lead me to treats!" and then keeps following the track looking for the next reward. The NAVHDA folks have told me that you're teaching a command - 'track'. Track means put your nose on the ground and follow scent.

With that said - that exercise worked on some of my dogs better than others. I ran one of Shooter's boys a few years ago and he did TERRIBLE at it. He didn't want to follow the track, he didn't 'get it', he had no interest in following the scent of watered down dog food, or watered down pheasant scent. BUT - one day I tried him out on a live pheasant and he did a picture-perfect track every time! He just needed the real thing - the set-up situations didn't do it for him. That dog got a perfect score.

[PrairieGoat]

phermes1,

I like the sound of your ketchup bottle solution....will have to give it a try. I am currently thinking about running my 8 month old GSP through an NA test and had been wondering about how the best way to ensure he was on "track" would be! I've also got a bit of a road ahead of me working him in the water. I got him just as winter was setting in......and it has barely let up, so the water around here is still cold. I've had him out several times and he loves the water as far as wading, but he is not real keen on swimming yet. May try a dead bird to entice him to swim....

[yakky'sgriff]

prairiegoat, I dont know how much it would effect your dog down the road by enticing him into water using a bird, but during the NA test if you have to use a bird to get him to swim he gets docked on his score.

[phermes1]

phermes1,

I like the sound of your ketchup bottle solution....will have to give it a try. I am currently thinking about running my 8 month old GSP through an NA test and had been wondering about how the best way to ensure he was on "track" would be! I've also got a bit of a road ahead of me working him in the water. I got him just as winter was setting in......and it has barely let up, so the water around here is still cold. I've had him out several times and he loves the water as far as wading, but he is not real keen on swimming yet. May try a dead bird to entice him to swim....

A dead bird might help get him started, but like yakky'sgriff said, it hurts your score in NA. I think the most you can get is a prize II if a bird is required. Might even be a prize III, I'm not sure.

You might want to try taking him swimming with another dog that is a really good swimmer. Sometimes they just need another dog to show them the way. Or he'll see the other dog having so much fun he'll want to join in, and he'll be more likely to get over his nervousness.

[Ruffshooter]

Tracking;
The biggest problem folks have is their dogs are too excited and not focused.
get some dead birds,pluck some feathers spread them out for about 15ft or so, drag one out 20 yards, then 40yards then 60 yards then 100 yards from field to woods or brush. Have the dog on the check cord.

To start your dog hold em by the collar right on the feather pile put your hand down and bring the dog down the track until you see the dogs light come on. Pulling forward. Follow behind on the check cord, not saying anything the dog will follow scent then leave it get tot the end of the check cord and will come around and hit the scent again. As it does it will move forward you move forward while the dog moves forward also. The dog finds the bird. Do a couple fun tosses and put it away.

Then run out a few pheasants, one at a time. first one in your site so you know where the track is. Set dog up same by collar, look for the dog to tell you he has it release the dog.

After you see the dog understands the drill no check cord. Stand there look forward not at your dog.

Do your drills and training in different places so the dog learns to hunt all the time, that there are birds there all the time.

You don't need to have your dog trail hot dogs or ketchup or his food bowl.

Swimming.
Go plant your self out in the water ignore the dog, go fishing canoeing etc. Put other good active swimming dogs out. If your dog still won't swim take a live quail and throw it out in the water. It will swimm for a few throws. Let the dog have at it. Don't force the dog to swim. When at the test make it as fun as possible. Play with the dog, tease him with the bumpers, chuck it out 10 yards or so. Maybe 5 at first, Don't say anything. Just let the dog do what they want to do. Keep it fun.

Good luck.

[wems2371]

We started waterwork back in March at about 8 months--when there was still snow on the ground. Always left the truck heater on high, used a neoprene vest, had lots of towels, and didn't let her work more than 15 minutes or so with a short trip back to the truck. Our dog loves retrieving, so we just teased her with bumpers in a shallow creek (less than knee deep on her). We did that for about a week, and she absolutely loved it. That little creek was a great starting point, because when she fumbled the bumper, it would slowly float down stream and she would chase it down--so she got really comfortable with having her toes wet. Then we moved to a pond and just 5' throws in water deep enough that she could still touch. She started out hesitant, but after 2-3 days she was heading out 20', swimming all the way. Now I can't keep her out of my ornamental koi pond and all my lillies are upside down. :roll: She swims better than I do.

If your dog loves wading already, I'm guessing it won't take much to get him swimming. Denise

[PrairieGoat]

Thanks all for the great advice!!!

I think all the ideas on getting him swimming are good ones. I knew about the dead bird issue at the NA, but am just looking for a little extra motivation to get him actually swimming. As it stands now, he will go to the point of floating off his feet and them turns around and gets back to wading depth. One of the last times we were out, he did get deep enough to swim a stroke or two but really didn't get much of it. That time I had waders on and was out enticing him, so that obviously works......unfortunately only had my hip waders in the truck, so was limited in depth myself (too cold for me to swim too!). Will probably take my chest wader next time and give it a try. As for swimming with other dogs, don't really know anyone in the area that has dogs, swimming or otherwise. I will probably be going to the next NAVHDA Training Day, so this may help as well.

[monksmom]

I would try to get the dog used to entering different bodies of water so that strange water won't spook him/her. Also, many don't tease the dog enough before throwing the dummy and they throw the dummy too far. You can ask the judge how far to throw the dummy so that the dog has to swim. Also, the track is the thing that gets most dogs...I used pheasant scent on feathers tied to a dummy and did a couple of drags to get the dog to understand what tracking was all about, making sure to break cover...they will expect that. I agree with the others that if you can do a mock test, that is the best way to prepare yourself for what to expect.

[PrairieGoat]

Great advice.....thanks! Haven't seen a mock test scheduled yet, but will see if I can find one. In the mean time, the local NAVHDA chapter is having a Test tomorrow and I was thinking I might wander up there (minus the dog) just to watch. I assume they wouldn't mind????? I tried to call one of the folks listed on the website, but no answer.....suspect he is "knee deep" in getting ready for it!

I also like the track training method, but what did you mean by "breaking cover"?

Thanks for the info!
Randy

[monksmom]

If you ask the person running his/her dog and the judges, they will probably let you trail behind them to watch. I was also told the less you say/hack the dog, the better. On the track, breaking cover means they will expect the dog to go from a field and into woods or some other cover type to continue the track. They don't have to bring the bird back, but that always is a good thing! When I ran in the NA, my dog was considerably older...13 mo...because Spins mature slowly. He suprised me on the track, but we/I did prepare the most for that, and on his runs, he got to love swimming, so that wasn't really a problem. He got 4s on both of those. In the field, the weather got hot. He busted the first bird but had a nice point on the second, and allowed me to flush and remained steady. That saved his butt because he pottered a bit in the middle due to the heat. You can water your dog during the field portion as much as necessary. Make sure you take water with you when he does the field portion.

[GWP-Fritz]

I just ran my dog in an NA test this past weekend in Colorado and two weeks ago he would not swim he would just wade. A member of NAVHDA helped me getting him to swim by using a bumper and a big fishing pole. He would get the dog excited by swinging the bumper in front of the dog and then casting it out a little ways. When my dog only went in to his shoulders and did not swim he gave the fishing rod a little movement which made the bumper move and the dog got excited and swam after it.

I don't have a big fishing pole and did not want to buy one for this so I took a broom handle and put an eyelet in it and used some small rope to go through the eyelet and tied it to the bumper. I did what he did and got my dog excited and then tossed the bumper out 10-15 feet where it was deep enough for him to swim. As we progressed I got rid of the stick and just kept the bumper on a long rope so I could make the bumper move a little and he would always go get it. This also helped when something would distract him and he would forget what we were doing, I could always get the bumper back.

I also kept the water training short, only 5 minutes or so. He would shiver when he got out of the water and I wanted to keep it fun so when I saw this we would go run around for a while and come back to it.

He swam great for his test and got all of his points in the water section and like I said two weeks ago he wouldn't swim.

Not to hijack your thread but he did great on the track and not as good in the field. We practiced the track 1-2 times a week for about a month before hand using a frozen pheasant. The only problem he had with the track is he caught wind of one of the other tracks and he went looking for it but came back and started over which was a good thing. We didn't work much on the field before hand but he was holding his points nicely in training and would always find the birds. On the test he was so amped up he took off and was chasing birds after they flushed. He eventually caught one and then he was out hunting for himself. We have some work to do. He ended up with a Prize II 99.
Adam

[CapWPG]

I ran the Colorado NAVHDA NA test as well this last weekend. My pup aced everything but the track. To be frank, I felt the judges were very liberal in giving my pup a "1" on the track. After reading this post I had to try the squirt bottle thing w/ a treat every few ft. I just came in from trying it & it looks like a very good way to teach the word association to the task. I've got live birds to work her on when she knows the meaning of "track".
Thanks Phermes1
CapWPG

P.S. This being my first post I would like to say hi to everyone. Looks like a good place to hang out.

[monksmom]

Nothing wrong with that Adam...sounds like we did about the same...Monk had a Pr II 97 points...he was only pointing about two weeks before the test.

[Reech]

I ran my dog last weekend in a Natural Abilities. She scored a 102 Prize 2. She go a prize 2 because of the use of her nose, However she scored a 4 in the track. I didn't understand it. How can she get "Dinged" on the use of her nose when she scored a 4 in the track and in the Search. Don't dogs use their nose as a tool for searching otherwise they are just running around without a purpose.

I looked at her "complete body of work" that day. Everything else she did was all prize 1 quality. Search, Desire, Cooperation, Pointing, Water and Tracking. I was and still am extremely happy with how my dog worked. I was told by the judges that my dog was too well trained to completely judge her field work as her having "Natural Ability" (She is steady to wing shot and fall). What a terrible thing to say about my dog! LOL

Again I didn't understand it, did my dog get judged at a different standard as the rest of the dogs? Does it really matter if she did - Absolutely not. Just means I do not have that much work to do with her to get her to prize in a UT test. Which is the level at which I want to train her at.

Sorry if I hi-jacked the post, but I have been watching this thread as I know test day was approaching.

Reech

[CapWPG]

I ran my dog last weekend in a Natural Abilities. She scored a 102 Prize 2. She go a prize 2 because of the use of her nose, However she scored a 4 in the track. I didn't understand it. How can she get "Dinged" on the use of her nose when she scored a 4 in the track and in the Search. Don't dogs use their nose as a tool for searching otherwise they are just running around without a purpose.

Reech

Interesting, My pup did the opposite. She got a 4 in nose and a 1 in track. How can that be? = 104 pr3 Must be why it takes so much time to become a judge. They must see things that we dont.
CapWPG

[BluffCountryOutdoors]

Guys guys...

No worries.. I'm glad that so many people can come into a thread and everyone can get help. Well turns out I had a test spot reserved but never recieved any of my papers to file for Single Reg. So I have to wait even longer now..

I live right on Lake Pepin in my hometown and Odin and I have been to the beach and in the boat since I got him, he just took a little longer on the swimming part. My buddies lab kept Odin jealous and finally he couldnt take it. Now he retrieves and swims and goes out by himself sometimes and just swims.

Could anyone fill me in on the prize levels or what the levels of judging/prizes are?

So if my dog is 10 months old now.. and when I get to test might not be until august.. will my dog be considered old and not really testable for NA?

Whatever.. I'm just happy that I got my buddy and that he's already proven himself to me in the field on the hunt.

anyway happy days gentlemen and thanks for the help.

MIkey & Odin

[phermes1]

How can she get "Dinged" on the use of her nose when she scored a 4 in the track and in the Search. Don't dogs use their nose as a tool for searching otherwise they are just running around without a purpose.

Reech

I think the search score represents basically how hard the dog works to find birds, not how keen the dog's nose is. A dog could have a terrible nose but still score well in search simply by showing independence and enthusiasm and covering the ground well.

The 4 in the track and getting dinged on nose confuses me, too. The only thing I can think is that perhaps the judges observed your dog pass a bird that they knew to be there without acknowledging its presence. Or lots of nonproductives might do it, too. I would have most likely asked the judges, (nicely!), what their thoughts were. I've done so in the past and found it very educational. The judges weren't offended either as they recognized that I was simply looking for understanding and not questioning their judgement.

[phermes1]

Could anyone fill me in on the prize levels or what the levels of judging/prizes are?

So if my dog is 10 months old now.. and when I get to test might not be until august.. will my dog be considered old and not really testable for NA?

MIkey & Odin

Your dog can receive a prize up to 16 months of age.

Here's the best place to learn about scores and prizes:

http://www.navhda.org/testrule.pdf

[parshal]

Could anyone fill me in on the prize levels or what the levels of judging/prizes are?

In order to receive a prize 1 in Natural Ability a dog must have 4's in search, nose and desire and at least a 3 in all other categories. In order to get a prize 2, they must have at least a 3 in search, nose, desire, water and pointing and 2's in tracking and cooperation. For a prize 3, they must have at least a 3 nose and 2's in search, water, pointing and desire. They can have 1's in tracking and cooperation and still get a prize 3.

The bottom of page 13 on the link that phermes posted explains it:

http://www.navhda.org/testrule.pdf

[parshal]

Haven't seen a mock test scheduled yet, but will see if I can find one.

Randy, we don't have a mock test but do set up stations for each of the parts of the NA test at our training days. We have a training day and snake breaking clinic on June 7th. We'll have another training day on August 2nd.

There are lots of us training throughout the summer although we typically train north of Denver.

[BluffCountryOutdoors]

Got it, Thanks for the link guys..

M & Odin