Gun Dog Forum

I HAVE A 16 MOUNTH OLD LWEW I TRAINED HIM EARLY TO BE STEADY TO FLUSH. PUP IS VERY STEADY KILLED 130 BIRDS OVER HIM ARE FIRST YEAR. BUT NOW I WANT HIM TO BE STEADY TO WING AND SHOT . I'M HAVEING A heck OF A TIME WITH IT.HE WILL WOA TO A SHOT IF THER IS NO BIRD BUT IF I FLUSH A BIRD AND SHOOT GAME ON . HE ALSO RETREIVES WELL .THANKS FOR ANY HELP

You can't shoot the bird if you are training steady to wing and the dog breaks. You undo everything you are trying to teach.

Ezzy

YES I KNOW THAT .WHAT I HAE BEEN DOING IS WHEN HE IS ON POINT I HAVE MY SON FLUSH AND SHOOT THE STARTER PISTOL AT THE SAME TIME AND I HOLD THE DOG BACK AND MAKE HIM STAY .I'M TRYING NOT TO USE THE E COLLAR AROUND BIRDS PUP IS VERY TIMMID

smittysmith777 wrote:YES I KNOW THAT .WHAT I HAE BEEN DOING IS WHEN HE IS ON POINT I HAVE MY SON FLUSH AND SHOOT THE STARTER PISTOL AT THE SAME TIME AND I HOLD THE DOG BACK AND MAKE HIM STAY .I'M TRYING NOT TO USE THE E COLLAR AROUND BIRDS PUP IS VERY TIMMID

Break it down in smaller steps and the dog will understand it better. Get the dog steady to wing 1st, then add the shot but don't kill the bird. When the dog is steady to wing and shot then kill it a bird every so often but not every bird. I don't let my dogs retrieve shot birds at 1st, I will have my gunner retrieve the bird back to the standing dog and give it to him. Once they are rock steady to the kill then let them retrieve some birds but not every bird that you kill in training. It helps to keep the dog off balance and they learn only to fetch when you send them. This phase of training takes time and work, don't get in a hurry or it will knock the style out the dog.

Mo

THANKS FOR THAT MO SOUNDS LIKE GOOD ADVICE.

I start them just like a retriever in the yard. First steady him to thrown bumpers, then birds thrown, then into the field. You're fighting a tough and an unfair battle if you steady the dog only in the field. You can also sour him on birds and cause him to start flagging. Do it in the yard in an orderly sequence.

If you are not competing, why do you need your dog steady to wing and shot? It's not NECESSARY for a hunting dog, especially if it's as timid as you described. Steady to wing and shot is going against the dog's instinct and may be too much pressure if it's soft. Sounds like you already have a fine gun dog.

Chocolate Head

As a grouse hunter to me steady to the shot makes it worth it. If you have a ideal food soure with multiple birds in a 50 yard patch of berries or grapes and the dog is steady to the shoot it allows you to make a more controled advance with less bumps. I also use the method Marice has described, and have had good succes. Why reward a dog with a retreive every time you shoot the dog needs to understand that your in control of every thing good.

BEEN WORKING ON STEADY TO WING NOW FOR TWO DAYS .I USED THE E COLLAR THE FIRST FEW FLUSHES AFTER THAT HE HAS BEEN STEADY I'M GOING TO KEEP THAT UP FOR A WEEK AND THEN ADD THE SHOT.HE IS ALLREADY A GREAT GUN DOG .I JUST WANT A LITTLE MORE CONTROL AND MYBE SOME MORE STYLE THANKS GUYS

Smitty, Try taking the cap lock off before you type.

Thank you,

Ezzy

PA Hunter, I see your point. I guess the type of hunting he is doing is good information to have before giving advice.

In my area our staple wild bird is woodcock, which I'm sure you have too, and they rarely hang in groups down here. I have had several in a 50 yard area, but our dogs seem to have always stopped on new scent, when chasing a flushed bird. On the rare occassions we find wild quail, the GSP of the group has an uncanny way of knowing there is a single that didn't flush and she holds point. Not sure how that happens, but it does.

Thanks for the info.

If a dog really understands what "whoa" means, teaching steady to wing and shot shouldn't be hard to teach. I did it on the training table. He was told to whoa as soon as he saw the bird (ie this helped in getting him to point also), then the bird was tethered and moved around, "flushed" etc. He had to "whoa" through that. For steady to shot, I gave him a whoa command and fired a pistol at the same time and gradually did not say whoa but just fired the gun and he had to stop...he learned to associate a "whoa" with a gun shot...worked well.

Monkman the problem I'm haveing is that I shot to many birds over him as a pup he was very steady but only to flush now I want him steady to wing and shot .Right now I have been working with him and I have him steady to wing .He also is steady to the shot but not together I tried to put every thing together to day but he was a little unsteady but much beter then a week ago thanks

If you're not going to go back to the yard, then put a cc on him before the flush. Have someone flush and shoot the bird. When he breaks, tip him upside down, bring him back, and put him down on the spot he was, whoaing him. I'd do it in the yard first.

monksmom wrote:For steady to shot, I gave him a whoa command and fired a pistol at the same time and gradually did not say whoa but just fired the gun and he had to stop...he learned to associate a "whoa" with a gun shot...worked well.

That may have worked for you, but I personally would be hesitant about randomly firing a gun around a dog with NO birds involved. Could have a deleterious effect on a more noise sensitive dog. I want gun shots to equal birds in my dogs' heads. Just my opinion....

GONE HUNTING ,.Itook the advice from Maurice and broke it down it seems to be working fine it;s only been a few days and he is almost there I am useing the collar instead of the cc it seems to work fine right now he is about 85% . HE just moves a step or so thats with no stimulatoin. Another week and I think I'll have somthing

mtlee wrote:

monksmom wrote:For steady to shot, I gave him a whoa command and fired a pistol at the same time and gradually did not say whoa but just fired the gun and he had to stop...he learned to associate a "whoa" with a gun shot...worked well.

That may have worked for you, but I personally would be hesitant about randomly firing a gun around a dog with NO birds involved. Could have a deleterious effect on a more noise sensitive dog. I want gun shots to equal birds in my dogs' heads. Just my opinion....

What happens if you miss??

That's never been a problem for him...if anything, he gets excited when he hears a gunshot, but he doesn't move unless he happens to be running in the first place and hears a gun go off somewhere else or unless I tell him he can move (fetch). In training, I'm using a .22...not as loud as a shot gun, but he is very steady to the command whoa, flush and shot. I only recently had a slight issue when he ran with his brother doing backing exercises and the pressure of that required a collar correction when he broke on his brother's fetch He's been around birds enough to know that birds are good. Personally, once you have established that the dog is not gunshy, I don't see the problem. I agree that the slack check cord and self correct is a good way to correct, once you have taught the dog that he is supposed to stay steady to shot.

Good Job on the work...I am a firm believer that if you put the time in, with a little guidance, you can accomplish a lot! I say that as a first time gun dog owner training my first gun dog (with help from my friends).

Thanks for the advice monk My pup will also stop dead when a shot is fired .But only to look up in the air for a bird. That was the problem. I shot to many birds over him his first year and was happy with him steady to flush but I got bored and instead of getting another pup I just thought I would go the next step with the pup I have now . He IS NOW 16 MOUNTHS and one of the best dogs I have ever hunted over I'M 45 and been hunting since I was 10

Glad you're making progress. You'll never go wrong with advice from Maurice. Your next huge hurdle will be hunting season. You'll think the dog is steady from the summer; it won't be. First cackling rooster that gets up, it'll be gone. Your most important job will be to forget about the birds, let someone else shoot them, and concentrate on the dog and training. You must transfer the training from the summer to the hunting field.

Gone hunting . Something tells me your gonna be right about that.

monksmom wrote:

mtlee wrote:

monksmom wrote:For steady to shot, I gave him a whoa command and fired a pistol at the same time and gradually did not say whoa but just fired the gun and he had to stop...he learned to associate a "whoa" with a gun shot...worked well.

That may have worked for you, but I personally would be hesitant about randomly firing a gun around a dog with NO birds involved. Could have a deleterious effect on a more noise sensitive dog. I want gun shots to equal birds in my dogs' heads. Just my opinion....

What happens if you miss??

That's never been a problem for him...if anything, he gets excited when he hears a gunshot, but he doesn't move unless he happens to be running in the first place and hears a gun go off somewhere else or unless I tell him he can move (fetch). In training, I'm using a .22...not as loud as a shot gun, but he is very steady to the command whoa, flush and shot. I only recently had a slight issue when he ran with his brother doing backing exercises and the pressure of that required a collar correction when he broke on his brother's fetch He's been around birds enough to know that birds are good. Personally, once you have established that the dog is not gunshy, I don't see the problem. I agree that the slack check cord and self correct is a good way to correct, once you have taught the dog that he is supposed to stay steady to shot.

I wouldn't know about missing...don't do it very much (That is a complete LIE).

The only reason I made that comment is because my Shorthair, at 2 yrs old developed some "gun sensitivity." My brother was shooting his .22 rifle off the front porch and she was laying at the other end..I never even thought about her being down there. Well he fired off a few shots and she got up, put her ears back and her head down and jogged off. It was very loud since the porch roof made the gunshot echo, it hurt my ears. Didn't think much about until about a week later when I pulled my shotgun out from under the bed and she put her head down and left the room. Prior to this she had absolutely no gun shy tendencies and had a season of hunting under her belt. Heck, I took her to shoot skeet with me and like 5 buddies in college when she was 12 wks old. I left her in the bed of my truck 20 yards away from us....WHAT A TERRIBLE IDEA, but it didn't phase her.

I also did the "whoa..bang" steady to shot method you are talking about for about a day...she showed some sensitivity and I didn't like it, so I quite and did it another way. Not saying that there is one right way, just saying that different dogs handle situations in different ways.

I agree...every dog is different. For what it's worth, I learned to shoot at the clay range and while I was tempted to take the dog along, I was wisely advised not to and I never have...I think it is just too much, especially for a young dog. The little starter pistol I have isn't very loud at all...but I also trained him to get used to a gun very gradually...and used food to do it so it was associated with good things.